Blinded/Castrated Byzantine heirs should NOT be able to Claim the Throne

[hylander25k]

Byzantine Emperors were supposed to be the perfect image of God on earth. Marring the physical form of the Emperor destroyed the physical perfection of the body, limiting the Emperor's ability to represent God as king, which is why it was such a powerful tool. Because of this, it was impossible for mutilated emperors to come back and retake the throne.

I'm playing as the Doux of Achaea, and I'm finding that over half the rebellions for the crown are in the name of blinded or castrated claimants, a situation I find incredibly hard to believe would ever happen, historically. I think that mutilation should remove strong and weak claims on the byzantine throne. This would cut down on the number of revolts by mutilated claimants, leaving room for other, stronger claimants to emerge. I do not think this would make the game less turbulent. Likewise, mutilation of certain individuals should carry a heavy burden, such as a year or even two year long debuff to vassal opinions, in anything OTHER than a successful rebellion.

Thoughts?

 

[Imperator1993]

I thought they could'nt, I swore I saw in one of the dev dairy's thats in already.

 

[dorimi]

Byzantine Emperors were supposed to be the perfect image of God on earth. Marring the physical form of the Emperor destroyed the physical perfection of the body, limiting the Emperor's ability to represent God as king, which is why it was such a powerful tool. Because of this, it was impossible for mutilated emperors to come back and retake the throne.
Thoughts?

wrong
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_II_Angelos

 

[Comm Cody]

But his son was Co-Emperor which was allowed.

If a Emperor is on the throne, and is blinded or castrated, his son should be regent, or failing that, his wife.

 

[hylander25k]

wrong
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_II_Angelos

Isaac Angelos was a bit of a special case.

As a general rule, and a matter of Byzantine Doctrine, disfiguration was a part of being deposed, and served a purpose other than just to make the deposee ugly.

 

[hylander25k]

I thought they could'nt, I swore I saw in one of the dev dairy's thats in already.

while I have yet to have an actual emperor who is blinded/castrated I have many many wars to push them onto the throne.

 

[Talq]

Add Justinian II to those who disproved the impact of your 'doctrine' (although that was cutting off the nose, and the practice was discontinued afterward).

Your doctrine was the justification for the blindings, and them being removed from the line of succession. However it certainly shouldn't stop them having a claim. Byzantine succession law in practice amounted to 'he who has the swords, wins'.

 

[hylander25k]

Add Justinian II to those who disproved the impact of your 'doctrine' (although that was cutting off the nose, and the practice was discontinued afterward).

Your doctrine was the justification for the blindings, and them being removed from the line of succession. However it certainly shouldn't stop them having a claim. Byzantine succession law in practice amounted to 'he who has the swords, wins'.

Well, if you're deposed, you are defacto removed from the line of succession. And you're right, Justinian did return to the throne, something that went over my head. But, Justinian was a returning Emperor also, not just some shmo who had been mutilated. Most of my rebellious vassals who are blinded or castrated do not even have the born in the purple trait. Maybe a deformation should incur some sort of penalty with the vassals, especially if the vassals were the ones responsible for deposition in the first place. This should be especially appropriate for returning Emperors.

 

[Zireael]

I'd prefer it if the claims were lost upon blinding. Maybe not castration.

 

[HabemusZlatan]

I'd prefer it if the claims were lost upon blinding. Maybe not castration.

Actually eunuchs shouldn't be able to hold any titles, let alone the imperial ones. Otherwise, what's the point of castrating your rivals? Just plain cruelty?

 

[telegraph]

What is wrong with a bit of plain cruelty? Do not you have a few people in real life, who you would gladly geld if you could?

And do not forget that gelding drops fertilty considerably. This means - no more those pesky Doukas will come from this very loins.

 

[HabemusZlatan]

What is wrong with a bit of plain cruelty? Do not you have a few people in real life, who you would gladly geld if you could?

And do not forget that gelding drops fertilty considerably. This means - no more those pesky Doukas will come from this very loins.

A little bit of Abbacination is never bad, except that you left the new blinded dude that hates your guts free to scheme again against you while possessing vast domains in the newly conquered lands of Aegyptus.

I mean, what's the point, he just hates me more and doesn't really feel threatened after i just blinded him. Should at least feel a bit intimidated.

 

[telegraph]

From time to time I give an unfavourable vassal a court jester title, just to provoke him and revoke his domain... It is pretty cool that I can provoke people even further by removing their organs.

 

[Prince Michael]

From http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?638259-Crusader-Kings-II-Legacy-of-Rome-Dev-Diary-5-Events-and-Decisions Dev Diary 5 for the Legacy of Rome:

Goosecreature: "As you have probably seen, Byzantine rulers can elect to blind or castrate their prisoners. This can be an efficient way of permanently crippling your rivals without executing them outright. Have an obnoxious brother that covets your throne? If he is blinded or castrated, he will be removed from the imperial succession, and you will have one less pretender to worry about. Just don't expect him to like you much afterwards."

Which means we have misunderstood the thing or the thing is not working as intended.

 

[Amadeu of Savoy]

Yeah, OP is right. I haven't played enough to see this problem, though.

 

[Lord Finnish]

I haven't checked myself if blinded people can strive for the throne but it shouldn't be so. If this was meant to be possible, then why would they have included the option to blind in the first place?