Bizarre Italian Divisional Builds

[Jafkka]

Just started playing HOI3 again and TFH for the first time. I've noticed in my un-modded games that Italy is programmed to build divisions that include one infantry brigade and one motorized infantry brigade. At first I thought this was a mistake but in most of the scenarios have pre-built divisions with this precise build.

There are a couple other strange default divisional builds.

Does anyone know what the thinking was here? Has everyone else edited the game files so the AI uses more sensible divisions?

 

[marxianTJ]

The 1936 scenario is the only one that doesn't have a ton of wacky division builds in it - check out the ungodly amount of STR bombers the USSR has in the 41' scenario for no discernible reason lol. But in the 36' scenario Italy has *fairly* normal division constructions that the AI handles fairly normally 2 or more width having divisions (usually of the same type though for Italy MIL can end up mixed in sometimes because they start with a huge amount of them) paired with an assortment of 0 width units (ART/AT/AA etc).

 

[Count Blue]

I just like to mention that Italy is always prone to pumping out some weird builds.
Mixing mobile with foot brigades is one of them.
ITA_trukmovable = {
motorized_brigade
infantry_brigade
}
One could of course edit those default templates in Hearts of Iron 3\tfh\common\countries\ for italy to ones taste of historical accuracy if one would care enough.

 

[Nicegil]

This is not that weird in the case of italian units.
The type of division described refers to the so-called "Autotrasportabile" (truck-moveable), a mixture of motorized, truck-borne, and animal transported units.

9, 10, 52, 103, 104, 105 IDs (Metropolitan divisions)
1, 25, 27, 55, 60, 61, 62, 63 and 64 IDs (North African divisions)

 

[Jafkka]

This is not that weird in the case of italian units.
The type of division described refers to the so-called "Autotrasportabile" (truck-moveable), a mixture of motorized, truck-borne, and animal transported units.

9, 10, 52, 103, 104, 105 IDs (Metropolitan divisions)
1, 25, 27, 55, 60, 61, 62, 63 and 64 IDs (North African divisions)

Good info, thanks! I was not familiar with the historical basis for these semi-mobile divisions

In real life, there would be benefits to having part of a division motorized, if not all of it. In the HOI3 game, however, these advantages are modeled and partial motorizations are almost entirely a detriment.

Although I now understand what the designers are trying to model, I'd prefer to go ahead and change these builds in the common files to binary motorized divisions.

 

[Count Blue]

What I meant is the build is weird gamewise since the division will neither be ressource saving (needs fuel) nor will it be fast.

The only way you would gain advantage from such a div is when you split it into its brigades for a teeny tiny mission.
Like you could split of the motorised part and let them advance quick to a VP and take it maybe.

It seems they are there for the historic game flavour which is nice.
One could combine the fitting pairs of brigades whith each other so you get one inf and one mot div from it.

The italians do build some nice mot (3x MOT,1xTD) and some pretty inf 2xINF,1xAA,1xENG) divs as a matter of fact.

 

[Nick U]

There is one advantage in having such half motorised infantry divisions in HOI3. They will effectively create a supply dump containing fuel in any province they pause in (defend).

When a unit strategically redeploys, it picks up double supply to carry with it, but leaves all of it's fuel behind. The result is that with mobile units, while they can reach a friendly province quickly, they are left effectively static until fuel supplies catch up, which can take weeks sometimes. With these hybrid infantry units, you can effectively prefuel a province prior to the strategic redeployment of your mobile units. This can be useful when defending large regions with insufficient troops as you can deploy a thin line of Hybrid infantry units up front and then reinforce with mobile units as needed.

 

[Didz]

With these hybrid infantry units, you can effectively prefuel a province prior to the strategic redeployment of your mobile units. This can be useful when defending large regions with insufficient troops as you can deploy a thin line of Hybrid infantry units up front and then reinforce with mobile units as needed.

Thats interesting to know. So, presumbly the same would be true if one were to add any petrol consuming unit to a division build. e.g. Armoured Cars, self-propelled artillery etc.

 

[Nick U]

The short answer is yes, but I would not advise it.

The benefit I have described is very situational and of dubious benefit even then. The SPART is a very expensive unit (1200 IC days) and it would be a waste to pair that up with a regular INF. The AC and ENG is of similar cost to a MOT and gives a Combined Arms bonus, but in a dug in defensive position for a binary division an INF+MOT would be more effective than an INF+AC or INF+ENG. I personally hate binary divisions and would stick with conventional regular infantry divisions and deploy them more sensibly while avoiding Strategic Movement near the front line.

It may be a reasonable build for an AI which doesn't plan it's defenses and then has to strategic redeploy everything to counter a threat. I've noticed something similar with AI controlled Soviet Infantry divisions which are built with 2xINF then 2 brigades drawn seemingly randomly from the following list - ART, AA, AT, AC. Thus, on average every 4th Soviet Infantry division has a fuel pulling unit (AC). With 4 brigade divisions this is more sensible.

Fuel pulling units are most effective in remote areas. In my last game as Germany I switched from a patchwork of 2xMIL+POL to far fewer WSS+AC (both of which are very fast mobile units) for my rear area anti partisan defences and this worked very well. I deployed them to airfield provinces and they were fast enough to hit any Partisan unit that spawned within 7 or 8 provinces and for targets further afield I would bring in an Air Transport with Paratrooper and the fuel would already be on the airfield allowing them to drop in the earliest possible time.

 

[marxianTJ]

Well the deal with those is that the AI just builds attachments - it can't actually tell what sort of attachment it's building (or plan for it). That's why for example HPP mod just abstracted support brigades into 3 different support brigades based on speed since the AI can't tell the difference between an AC/AT/ART etc.