Bit disappointed...

[TheOrangeGuy]

My main concern is that 3D models are a main aspect of HOI now, it used to be counters with brigade real life pictures as the main "unit" but now it's 3D models.. So it bugs me that they remove MAJORS from this new main feature and sell off as different DLCs, if you imagine in the older games that all the german light tanks have the same picture, all the mediums have the same picture etc, and then try to sell you a DLC(at launch) with more pictures. I understand that 3D models(in most cases) require more work then finding a picture of a tank etc, but still, that's their design choice, it shouldn't affect the major nations at least.

TL: DR: They should not sell off artwork for the major nations at launch, as it is one of the main features.

 

[gmgriffith]

Everyone saying this thread is about whining about the price, you clearly haven't read everything I stated. I'd gladly pay 60$ for the core game, and have no issue. Whatever Paradox deems to be the appropriate price for the core game I'd likely pay (within reason of course), It's not about the money. It's about the principle of removing something as big as already completed major powers 3d models from the game for people that don't shell out extra cash over what they sold the core game at.

Yes, I get that you can consider it a "bare bones" version, but as someone else pointed out, then where does that stop? Do we buy the game for 40 and have no 3d models at all? They aren't necessary. At bare bones do we need national flags? Leader portraits? We could have a map like HoI 3 and have the 3d map as part of a higher price point! I don't think paradox would do that, but it is effectively the same line of thinking if you call it a bare bones version.

The models are done, they are for major powers in the game that will have significant roles in every game, they should be in the core game imho.

Also I've further stated that if it was available as a separate dlc I wouldn't mind as much, but right now I have to decide if I want those models before I've played the game at all, which I'm certainly not a fan of and will not support.

 

[griffor]

But anyways it could be worse i mean its not like its creative assembly level of scumminess where entire factions gets cut out and sold as day one dlc.

save it's not being sold it's free you just have to buy the game within the first week don't want to that's fine than buy dlc otherwise you get a reward

 

[Salatmander]

as much as i love paradox... in my eyes its a dick move to first praise that there will be "unique" models for the mayors and then sell it as "but only if you buy this extra dlc"

 

[steve.bd]

After all the disappointment for the 3D models in favour of counters, it is very strange to read so many complains about the fact that PDX decided to release this cosmetic feature as a bonus for higher price versions

This!

 

[Hanger_18]

poland ideas should be in the base game.

Im conflicted on models since it wont effect gameplay.
However i do like the idea of their tiered pricing for extras you dont need.
You can pay more for chrome , but aluminium works just the same. Its nice to only need to pay 40$ for whats going to be a superb game. For some im sure 40$ vs 60$ will make a huge difference.

Like i said itd be nice for the models to be in the base game. But i think i give them a pass for being an add on rather than a gameplay mechanic.

Polands idea set on the other hand should not be a reward for pre ordered games. That needs to be in the game

 

[leeuw]

Polands idea set on the other hand should not be a reward for pre ordered games. That needs to be in the game

In the original announcement it is written:

What about that Polish DLC I've seen mentioned?

• This will be given for free to anyone buying any version of Hearts of Iron IV ever because no World War II game would be complete without Poland.

No pre-order is mentioned. I suppose that they haven't included it in the base game cause the release candidate for the base game is already closed, so anything else should be added via DLCs/patches.

 

[Rommel41]

It will be an easy choice to skip all but the basic. I find the models almost cartoon-like. I don't like having fixed, 3D representations of my units on the map. It breaks my personal immersion. So I don't care about content related to that.

I'm quite satisfied with their options. I can tailor the game as it gets improved with future dlc and expansions that adds content I want.

 

[merlin2199]

I agree. It feels like cut content from the game which has tarnished the release somewhat. I think over the years on CK2 I must have spent well over £100 on new packs etc and will happily do so (maybe) for HO4 but I have never been one for all the collectible add ons outside the game so this feels like to me that I must pay extra to receive some things I don't really want just to get what I thought would be in the base game already. In fact having watched the streams for months now I'm not entirely sure what will be in the game now? Does this mean the German tech tree will just contain 'generic' tanks now if you don't pay the extra for the packs?

This. Moreover, I just want counters. Show me counters or I won't buy the game. A first for me from P'dox releases going back to EU1.

 

[GsusNSV]

I suppose that they haven't included it in the base game cause the release candidate for the base game is already closed, so anything else should be added via DLCs/patches.

Paradox explained it like this. The Poland stuff was made by someone as a side project. It was intended to be released after the launch. Then HoI 4 was delayed by a year. Suddenly the Poland DLC was finished before the launch.

 

[srb]

As a long time Hearts of Iron fan it's quite disconcerting to see the 3D models of warships of major powers being treated as "additional content", not to mention 40 different 3D tank models. Sure, the preview pic shows relatively rare tanks that were hardly the mainstay of the war (F1, Centurion, T-35, M6, and King Tiger with 105mm gun, so postwar heavy tank I assume), but that leaves 35 unknown tank models.

I guess you really do want people to play with counters after all!

 

[Oliver Twopence]

A lot of people seem to view this as Paradox selling additional content, that really should have been a part of it, on top of the base game, where in actuality it is the Colonel edition that is the base game, with the Cadet edition simply being a stripped down version. If you get the base game, you get the models - but if you do not want it, you just get the stripped down version.

I know that is not what it says, but in effect that is what it is. With the asking price for the Colonel edition it is hard to argue anything else.

It is is just a simple trick to get the people "on the fence" to buy the game, get them hooked and milk them later. The alternative to not having Cadet and Colonel editions most likely is not "getting the complete game for €40", but rather just getting it for €50, without the flexible option to hook the more stingy gamers with a cheaper deal

 

[Sleight of Hand]

This. Moreover, I just want counters. Show me counters or I won't buy the game. A first for me from P'dox releases going back to EU1.

There are sort-of counters by default, and you can switch between normal (Paradox) and NATO designs. However, these are not identical to the counters from HoI II as far as I can see.

Also, if you want to turn off 3D models altogether then you can do that from the options menu. Then it's counters only.

 

[merlin2199]

There are sort-of counters by default, and you can switch between normal (Paradox) and NATO designs. However, these are not identical to the counters from HoI II as far as I can see.

Also, if you want to turn off 3D models altogether then you can do that from the options menu. Then it's counters only.

Excellent.

I couldn't find it on the stream. There was much ado about the trailer and pre-order for the last 10 or so minutes. However, I did find these on the Wiki:
http://www.hoi4wiki.com/Category:Counters

Bare bones but good enough for my taste.

Spoiler

 

[Diomedes]

As harsh as it sounds, this is a niche product that caters to a niche group. It's doubtful that Paradox is making tens of millions in profit catering to such a small group of gamers, no matter how devoted we are. I don't know how Paradox is doing overall financially, but my guess is that they generate far less revenue catering to niche markets than EA or Take-Two Interactive does catering to mainstream gamers.

So, yes, I guess Paradox could've taken a slightly higher road here and not have made the 3D models DLC. But, no, I don't begrudge them for not doing so anymore than I would an artisan who makes handmade specialized, made-to-order furniture charging more for his wares. The artisan can only make by hand so many items per year and is producing something special, unlike the big national chain that sells assembly line crap made in China.

 

[merlin2199]

As harsh as it sounds, this is a niche product that caters to a niche group. It's doubtful that Paradox is making tens of millions in profit catering to such a small group of gamers, no matter how devoted we are. I don't know how Paradox is doing overall financially, but my guess is that they generate far less revenue catering to niche markets than EA or Take-Two Interactive does catering to mainstream gamers.

So, yes, I guess Paradox could've taken a slightly higher road here and not have made the 3D models DLC. But, no, I don't begrudge them for not doing so anymore than I would an artisan who makes handmade specialized, made-to-order furniture charging more for his wares. The artisan can only make by hand so many items per year and is producing something special, unlike the big national chain that sells assembly line crap made in China.

I don't think that is the issue in and of itself. I think people have a problem when they perceive that if they don't go for the highest tier pre-order they wouldn't get something that in their minds should be or have been part of the original game. This is a recurring problem with pre-orders and DLC's not particular to P'dox alone but to the industry in general. The stigma is hard to shake once it rears its ugly head. Personally, I don't really care because I'm a counters guy. However, I know I would be a tad peeved if I had to fork over $90 for a game up front just to get models which really should be part of the original release.

As to the niche market, it's been their calling card for over 16 years. They've not only made a success of it, they've thrived and are now a household name in the genre. I've been around from the very early days and though I don't work for them it does make me feel happy and proud to see how far they've come. The successful launch of EU4 and CK2 as well as Stellaris are a testament to how much they've improved since EU3 and HoI 3. I do hope HoI4 follows the new pattern and becomes a massive success because after this, Victoria 3! So let it be written, so let it be done!

 

[oerbaa]

I'll admit, as soon as they announced that they are selling the 3D models separately during the WW2sday stream I got a bad taste in my mouth. The announcement should have been exciting, but all I thought of was the dozens of other companies that dice their games up to increase overall profit - prerelease.

If a month after release they announced a DLC for additional 3D models, I would have accepted it a bit more.

 

[gmgriffith]

A lot of people seem to view this as Paradox selling additional content, that really should have been a part of it, on top of the base game, where in actuality it is the Colonel edition that is the base game, with the Cadet edition simply being a stripped down version. If you get the base game, you get the models - but if you do not want it, you just get the stripped down version.

I know that is not what it says, but in effect that is what it is. With the asking price for the Colonel edition it is hard to argue anything else.

It is is just a simple trick to get the people "on the fence" to buy the game, get them hooked and milk them later. The alternative to not having Cadet and Colonel editions most likely is not "getting the complete game for €40", but rather just getting it for €50, without the flexible option to hook the more stingy gamers with a cheaper deal

Your statement is just patently untrue. Colonel isn't the "base game" because it's not the version that will be available after the pre-release period.

 

[Oliver Twopence]

Your statement is just patently untrue. Colonel isn't the "base game" because it's not the version that will be available after the pre-release period.

Do you know that for a fact? After all: the Galaxy and Nova editions of Stellaris are still available. I have to admit that I do not remember how it was with the different editions of EU4.

Still, this is much ado about nothing. The Cadet edition is dirt cheap, really. Take it as a bargain, or choose not to.