Bit disappointed...

[gmgriffith]

Let me start by saying I think the game will be great, having watched the WWW and everything I'm super excited to play and certainly looking forward to getting my hands on the game.

Why am I disappointed then? The pre-order release versions and bonuses. While I have no objections to versions that have content outside game, things like soundtracks, exclusive avatars, etc are great, but many of the bonuses on offer here are additional unit models. This looks to me like you'll have access to these additional unit models on day one... which means the models are already complete and in the game.... but not available for everyone? Why? More development time post-release isn't going to be spent on these models, they are already completed, so why hold them back from people that are purchasing the game?

I'll be happy to pay for additional expansions that increase the depth and breadth of the game in the future, I certainly don't expect Paradox to put in work creating extra content post-launch without being paid. I'm even happy to pay reasonable amounts for the initial game launch - and I'm grateful that Paradox typically launches their games at a 40$ price point which is totally reasonable compared to other titles, particularly considering how great the games are.

Why not include the models already made for the game in the base game though? The only reason I can think is to recoup some of the additional costs of the extra development time considering the release was largely delayed. The game was likely in a fairly launch ready state but was delayed to improve mechanics etc, the models themselves likely didn't need significant additional work - so the animators were likely put on the task of creating these extra models, great, excellent use of resources, just wish they weren't being used to create incentive to purchase higher tiers of preorder instead of just being in the game, essentially they are being withheld.

Will these be available for purchase outside of preorders? Will there be a season pass separate from the preorders? However much I would rather see the content just in the game already, I know it's just cosmetic and I expect it won't really reduce my enjoyment of the game, I just hate to see already created content withheld from the players on day 1

TL DR Why have sprite packs as preorder bonuses? The content clearly exists, why wasn't it just in the game?

 

[arkilious]

I agree. It feels like cut content from the game which has tarnished the release somewhat. I think over the years on CK2 I must have spent well over £100 on new packs etc and will happily do so (maybe) for HO4 but I have never been one for all the collectible add ons outside the game so this feels like to me that I must pay extra to receive some things I don't really want just to get what I thought would be in the base game already. In fact having watched the streams for months now I'm not entirely sure what will be in the game now? Does this mean the German tech tree will just contain 'generic' tanks now if you don't pay the extra for the packs?

 

[Shireknight]

It doesn't feel like cut content from the game it IS cut content from the game but then that's what the DLC revolution brought us and hey at least it's up front and honest for all to see, if they wanted too Paradox could have sat on the vehicle packs and slowly drip fed them out over the next two months following release in which case we would have paid the same amount for them anyway just had to wait longer to get them so nope I'm quite happy to see them released in this way, we're not losing anything by paying for them now rather than over a protracted period.

P.S. people may not agree with the DLC ethic but one thing you can't deny is that it keeps the developers interested in their already released games because they know it makes them ongoing cash cows which means patches and plenty of support for us.

 

[gmgriffith]

I agree. It feels like cut content from the game which has tarnished the release somewhat. I think over the years on CK2 I must have spent well over £100 on new packs etc and will happily do so (maybe) for HO4 but I have never been one for all the collectible add ons outside the game so this feels like to me that I must pay extra to receive some things I don't really want just to get what I thought would be in the base game already. In fact having watched the streams for months now I'm not entirely sure what will be in the game now? Does this mean the German tech tree will just contain 'generic' tanks now if you don't pay the extra for the packs?

The techtree is unchanged whether you purchase the higher tiers or not, it's just the 3D models in game that are given more visual options. Realistically not a big deal, and you get all of them at an extra 10$ If the packs are available separately I won't have much issue, just don't like the current way they are doing it.

 

[Amaror]

It doesn't feel like cut content from the game it IS cut content from the game but then that's what the DLC revolution brought us and hey at least it's up front and honest for all to see, if they wanted too Paradox could have sat on the vehicle packs and slowly drip fed them out over the next two months following release in which case we would have paid the same amount for them anyway just had to wait longer to get them so nope I'm quite happy to see them released in this way, we're not losing anything by paying for them now rather than over a protracted period.

P.S. people may not agree with the DLC ethic but one thing you can't deny is that it keeps the developers interested in their already released games because they know it makes them ongoing cash cows which means patches and plenty of support for us.

So ... I should cheer for paradox just because they aren't treating their customers as sh***y as they possibly could? No, if you do something that hurts your consumers then I will call the Companies out on that. The "Well, it could be worse"-argument can literally be used in pretty much every single situation. It is absolutly no excuse for bad behaviour.

 

[yonderTheGreat]

This is one of those "religion" type discussions, like supply-side vs demand-side economics... or whether horse armor was okay since it didn't add or take anything from the game (EXACTLY like the soundtracks and stuff you're talking about).

I'm not saying these threads shouldn't exist, but they're kinda pointless.

The 3d models add NOTHING of substance to the game. They do add superficial increases to the game. With THAT in mind, I want to say it's okay. But I also understand the "release day DLC" objection.

HOWEVER...

The base game is 40 bucks. That's on the cheap side for a AAA release. The "includes the superficial stuff" is 50 bucks. Also known as the standard price (or the lower of two standard prices) for AAA releases. So, if you WANT to look at it this way... the Colonel version is the *standard* version, and they're offering a "hey, this is cheaper, if you don't want the superficial stuff". Personally... I'm honestly okay with that.

Obviously the Field Marshal version is the Season Pass version, and since I've haven't been severely let down by PDS since HOI3 (which I EVENTUALLY found playable) I'm going to trust them. CK2, EU4, and Stellaris has earned them my trust.

 

[fredgiblet]

The base game is 40 bucks. That's on the cheap side for a AAA release. The "includes the superficial stuff" is 50 bucks. Also known as the standard price (or the lower of two standard prices) for AAA releases. So, if you WANT to look at it this way... the Colonel version is the *standard* version, and they're offering a "hey, this is cheaper, if you don't want the superficial stuff". Personally... I'm honestly okay with that.

This is important. It's a $40 game, I'm pretty sure everyone was expecting $60, because that's what most games go for these days. It's essentially being released for a price it wouldn't have gone for during the Winter Sale on Steam this year. I for one am extremely happy about that. To the point where even finding out that I could have gotten it for 25% off doesn't bother me that much.

 

[GermanPower]

I dislike releasing DLC at launch. It's strange to not bundle stuff. It always seems like a push for extra money. I simply can't wrap my mind around the logic of games finished we need to add in dlc instead of keeping it with the base game. If it's ready why isn't it with the game at launch? Makes me scratch my head. Why make it DLC? Maybe it's so Paradox can keep the 39.99 price tag? If that's the case I'm cool with it. It's just flavor. Keeping a low buy in price so you have large amounts of people buying it is very smart for the community and not always the most profitable hence the extra tag dlcs at release. Unless you try to pull a Civ 6.

 

[yonderTheGreat]

But, again, what if you just look at it as a CHEAPER option?

50 dollars *IS* the standard, right? So... 50 bucks for the standard version and 40 bucks for the full game w/ some of the non-necessary stuff removed?

Am I missing something?

 

[Sleight of Hand]

I don't know why so many of you are assuming that huge numbers of long-time Paradox players would cough up $60 or $70 for one of their games.

 

[gmgriffith]

I dislike releasing DLC at launch. It's strange to not bundle stuff. It always seems like a push for extra money. I simply can't wrap my mind around the logic of games finished we need to add in dlc instead of keeping it with the base game. If it's ready why isn't it with the game at launch? Makes me scratch my head. Why make it DLC? Maybe it's so Paradox can keep the 39.99 price tag? If that's the case I'm cool with it. It's just flavor. Keeping a low buy in price so you have large amounts of people buying it is very smart for the community and not always the most profitable hence the extra tag dlcs at release. Unless you try to pull a Civ 6.

I think it's largely a 2 part thing - first, the artists on a project like this are typically finished before actual release of the game, so the best thing to do is to have them continue making additional content. Secondly, I think you already hit on it, Paradox wants their game to reach a broad audience so having a lower price point for the quality they produce is important to them, it also allows them to do quality DLC with enough of an available market to be viable for them, no problems with that at all. The only thing I really have issue with is that afaik you can only get those extra models by preordering the more expensive versions. If it exists as a DLC even I don't mind that much, however much I dislike day one DLC the lower initial price point does make it at least reasonable to me.

But, again, what if you just look at it as a CHEAPER option?

50 dollars *IS* the standard, right? So... 50 bucks for the standard version and 40 bucks for the full game w/ some of the non-necessary stuff removed?

Am I missing something?

But 40$ isn't for the full game, it's for the game minus models that were already made for the purposes of selling them separately. Like I said, I wouldn't mind much if available as a DLC, I do dislike it as only a preorder bonus.

 

[Denkt]

They offer 3 different prices classes so you have 3 different choices. The cheapest version do not have these models while the other 2 have them. What is interesting is that they could have only gone with two choices and not have gone with the least priced version, the Cadet edition and we would not have this thread at all but it would actually be worse for the consumer as we would now only have two choices and the cheapest price we could get the game at (not taking account of any cost reductions) would be 49.99.

Now you could say why not give us a 39.99 edition with these models in but I could always just use the argument above and in the end it come down to do you feel the extra 10.00 is worth it to get these models (and what ever bonuses the more expensive edition give).

 

[Mannstien]

I go off the premise of "It could be EA" than all of the sudden everything is better

 

[GreenApple]

TL DR Why have sprite packs as preorder bonuses? The content clearly exists, why wasn't it just in the game?

I guess because money is always nice. Then again, maybe they'll cover the development costs (and a little extra) with packing the sprite packs with the more expensive versions.

 

[gmgriffith]

They offer 3 different prices classes so you have 3 different choices. The cheapest version do not have these models while the other 2 have them. What is interesting is that they could have only gone with two choices and not have gone with the least priced version, the Cadet edition and we would not have this thread at all but it would actually be worse for the consumer as we would now only have two choices and the cheapest price we could get the game at (not taking account of any cost reductions) would be 49.99.

Now you could say why not give us a 39.99 edition with these models in but I could always just use the argument above and in the end it come down to do you feel the extra 10.00 is worth it to get these models (and what ever bonuses the more expensive edition give).

They do offer 3, and I'd have bought the game at 50$ without the sprites no complaint if that was the original asking price, I'd have paid 60 without anything else in. The issue I have is when a company sets a price for a game, doesn't include all the content that they've already created, and puts out preorder price walls that prohibit people from having access to those things. Essentially my issue is with day one dlc.

I get it, they want to recoup some extra money on a game they spent additional time on to get right. That's fine, and like I said, if the initial price was higher I wouldn't have complained. It's one of the things that makes paradox great that they choose to have that lower price mark so more people can play their games. I also get that it's cosmetic and therefore doesn't really matter. I would even be pretty much content if the unit pack was available as dlc separate from the preorder, I wouldn't agree with it since I am opposed to to one dlc but it'd be better. Currently it's not available outside the preorder - and preorder bonuses as exclusives, when it's game content anyhow, are something I am very much against.

 

[JakeCourtney]

It allows for people to get a cheaper game. If you want it all then you pay the full price. Nice system.

 

[BigBobBear]

They do offer 3, and I'd have bought the game at 50$ without the sprites no complaint if that was the original asking price, I'd have paid 60 without anything else in. The issue I have is when a company sets a price for a game, doesn't include all the content that they've already created, and puts out preorder price walls that prohibit people from having access to those things

anything in the preorders other then then expansion packs are just sprites and other items that wont impact your game in a gameplay way, its also content the art department probably made after they finished the game specifically for the preorder, complaining about them wanting to make something special for preorder and not putting it in the main game just seems like someone complaining to just complain

 

[fredgiblet]

I dislike releasing DLC at launch. It's strange to not bundle stuff. It always seems like a push for extra money. I simply can't wrap my mind around the logic of games finished we need to add in dlc instead of keeping it with the base game. If it's ready why isn't it with the game at launch? Makes me scratch my head. Why make it DLC? Maybe it's so Paradox can keep the 39.99 price tag? If that's the case I'm cool with it. It's just flavor. Keeping a low buy in price so you have large amounts of people buying it is very smart for the community and not always the most profitable hence the extra tag dlcs at release. Unless you try to pull a Civ 6.

Sometimes it's a cash grab, other times it's the same reason there's a day 1 patch, because they completed the game, sent the game to bug testers, then continued working on things afterwards. By the time that the patch/DLC was ready the game was already ready to go in it's original form.

I go off the premise of "It could be EA" than all of the sudden everything is better

Italy is completely removed from the game if you don't buy the DLC for $15

 

[BBBD316]

Well if you go back to the launch of CK2 and EU4 there were sprites offered in pre-purchase then.

This is the same proposition that they have made for all recent releases, with the DLC you can buy sprites or not with it. I am not sure the issue here with graphical additions, heck they have even given the tools to make your own 3d models.

Seriously not a big deal, you choose your price entry.

 

[Mandraug]

Yeah, I'd like to support the viewpoint that putting cosmetic content into day-1 DLCs is a good thing. To me, personally, unit models have a value of $0. I am grateful that Paradox chooses to cater to consumers like me and rather than forcing us to buy the game at the higher price it offers a discounted version with these taken out. I'm a stingy f**k and I'll happily take them up on this offer. Meanwhile, the artists etc. have done a lot of hard work and deserve to be paid, because not everyone is an unaesthetic troglodyte like me, who would have switched the sprites off anyhow. This model has clearly increased consumers' level of choice as to which content to buy and I applaud it.