Bishops in war

[D.PHa]

Did bishops(or any other member of church, excluding holy orders ofc.) really lead armies and took part in battles in medieval times?

 

[Damorte]

Yes.

 

[unmerged(75409)]

Bishops often were second or third sons of nobles, so they would have had an aristocratic upbringing and only joined the church at age 16/18/ or even later. AFAIK bishoprics were often handed out by kings like any other feudal fief, i.e. they went to the most loyal supporter, not to the theologically or scholarly most deserving person.

Famous battles where bishops died:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fotevik
According to medieval tradition, five or six bishops followed King Niels of Denmark against the guy who would later become Erik II of Denmark, and they all perished in the battle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ane
Bishop of Utrecht dies in battle against a rebelling count and his peasant supporters. The bishop was Otto von Lippe, who was the second son of Bernhard II Count of Lippe.

Many bishops were active warmongers. Especially the ones in the HRE, where bishops were among the most important vassals of the emperor, and powerful territorial lords who had many quarrels with other feudal lords. The bishops were expected to regularly support the emperor with troops, and a lot of them personally went along with the Emperor when he campaigned for example in Italy.

 

[riknap]

we might as well ask if kings allowed lowborns to lead armies in medieval times, and if kings could be crusading in the levant one day, suffer a defeat and suddenly be defending his castle in northern europe against pagans the other.
or more relevant to your question, if Popes really lead armies with themselves at the forefront.


the game is an abstraction. the current mechanics do not cover everything. whether or not battle bishops existed in reality is in the same vein for women leading armies in medieval times.

 

[monsterfurby]

the game is an abstraction. the current mechanics do not cover everything. whether or not battle bishops existed in reality is in the same vein for women leading armies in medieval times.

You don't need to go that far, although you are right in many respects.

However, church leaders DID command armies just like mundane leaders did. Just because the church is a civil institution in the 21st century, that does not, in no way, apply to the medieval church. Yes, the catholic church used to be a feared military power, and there was nothing keeping bishops from raising troops and going to war.

 

[Jeltz]

Another example is that two Hungarian archbishops commanded soldiers and died in the Battle of Mohi against the Golden Horde. So bishops leading soldiers is historical and not that rare.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mohi

EDIT: It was two archbishops and three bishops who died in the battles against the mongols.

EDIT2: I do not know if Orthodox and Coptic bishops ever commanded soldiers in battle, but Catholic bishops certainly did.

 

[Thure]

And also at the Battle of Hastings. Odo, bishop of Bayeux fight there. And he became the Earl of Kent as thank. With picture!

 

[NewbieOne]

we might as well ask if kings allowed lowborns to lead armies in medieval times,

Once knighted it didn't really matter that much if that guy's father was a generic low noble or a hedge knight (the game's 'Lowborn' may cover the lowest nobility too, I think) or a peasant. But it would normally take someone higher than a simple knight (e.g. a banneret) to lead an army in some countries. By contrast, in late middle ages, such as early 15th century, in some countries there were entire categories of "knights without accolade" or even squires leading entire expeditions.

and if kings could be crusading in the levant one day, suffer a defeat and suddenly be defending his castle in northern europe against pagans the other.

That's a problem indeed.

or more relevant to your question, if Popes really lead armies with themselves at the forefront.

There's a long way from participating or providing moral leadership to actual military command and from there to participation in battles, let alone in the thick of the fray, engaging in duels with enemy soldiers.

the game is an abstraction. the current mechanics do not cover everything. whether or not battle bishops existed in reality is in the same vein for women leading armies in medieval times.

The game has combat modifiers on certain women actually. They just can't actually be assigned to lead.

And also at the Battle of Hastings. Odo, bishop of Bayeux fight there. And he became the Earl of Kent as thank. With picture!

Oh, and yeah, clubs instead of swords. 'Ecclesia not sitit sanguinem.' They avoided bloodshed by using bludgeoning weapons.

Another example is that two Hungarian archbishops commanded soldiers and died in the Battle of Mohi against the Golden Horde. So bishops leading soldiers is historical and not that rare

I'm pretty sure even in modern Geneva-Hague times if the chaplain is the only commissioned officer around he will sometimes take the lead of actual combat operations more or less informally.

 

[SamStarrett]

Orthodox clergy do not fight in wars. (EDIT: At least not priests and bishops. I'm not sure about deacons and minor clergy, like readers.) Catholic clergy most certainly did, however.