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Sephy

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Hello. Goal of this little mod is to improve Latvia as good as i can :D
This includes historical ministers and military leaders, historical research teams, Latvia re-balance(adjust tecs, industry and military divisions). It will be supported on AOD,DH and HOI3.

Suggestions, error reports and stuff welcome.

Here you go new version. Now working with 1914 scenario(added bunch of new historical ministers and for some 'vanilla' ministers pics), 1933 scenario(mostly grammar changes, few new ministers). And of coarse readme(If Game delevopers want, they can read why i changed vanilla ministers,etc). Of to writing readme for AOD ;P

Changes for 003:added fleets!!!, corrected political modifiers(for example before Ulmanis coup Latvia was democratic country, so in 1933 scenario it shouldnt be Paternal Autocrat!), added correct minister for 1936/1940 scenario, some spelling mistakes, added artillery brigade, made pretty code :laugh:. Btw my dream is that my mod, when its finished, could be integrated in vanilla version of game :eek:o.

Changes for 004:tech adjustments for 1933/1936/1940 scenarios, added new tech team and adjusted/corrected others

changes for 005:military leaders rework, some additions in unitnames(missing Int's added)

changes for 006:tons of events for Latvia, annex decisions for Soviets. Please test :D

changes for 007: fixed dates/descriptions in events for Lithuania/Estonia, new armament ministers, fixed events bugs in general, added economical events for Latvia, grammar mistakes corrected ;P

changes for 008: errors corrected + Baltic state military incorporated in Red army

changes for 009: errors corrected

changes for 010: errors corrected, Estonian oob and tehc revised for all scenarios

Link to DH version of mod: bigTIMELatvia010DH

Link to AOD version of mod: AOD Big TIME Latvia

Link to HOI3 version of mod: under-development

SCREENSHOTS



Changing historical cabinet



Flavor event day of Latvia independence



Coup of 15 may



historical minister changes



Soviet decisions for base treaties



As result of treaty wilno goes back to Lithuania




Decisions and results of occupation




Annexation and reorganization of Baltic states armies
 
Last edited:

unmerged(295676)

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Definitely mod of the year.
Btw I think it would be a nice flavour, if there would be such a detailed modification for minors. Doesn't take much time.
 

Sephy

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Actually yes. I planning to make decision/event chain to make Baltic and Finland alliance against SU in winter war. And another decision chain to resist SU, not get simply annex after MR pact(this one if first one fails). Some hisotrical production events too(like buying planes from UK). Of coarse if will make ai chances for this things to happen really low(like 10% for winter allieance and for resisting 20%). Player will be able to choose of coarse :D(his way of death?).
Maybe any suggestions?

edit: Latvia has no fleet at all! This is outrageous and must be corrected :angry:
 
Last edited:

Sakura_F

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Whell actually, you can already resist USSR's annexation in Darkest Hour and HOI3, iirc. In DH, USSR just DOW's you (I know, I was playing as Germany and while invading France, the USSR DOW'd all three Baltic states), and in HOI3, I played as Latvia and resisted USSR's invasion (and some dude conquered the world as Lithuania...)
 

Sephy

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Ohh well Sakura, i have seen it too, but that is unhistorical. Historical path would be making Baltic states puppets, then annex. At least non-historical path is already included :)

p.s.
I modified peacetime ic modifier, to present Latvia economic growth in -30ties. Is it right way to represent it?

p.s.s.
next version: researched tech adjustment, research teams adjustment.
 
Last edited:

Widar

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It's funny. As a Germany-player I'd love to see Latvia resisting the USSR or even go totally unhistorical at some point. But all that will not change the fact that I'd be conquering them myself...At least Latvia moves the starting border for Barbarossa a bit more eastwards :p
 

Sephy

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Most probably not going to happen, because i will try to recreate Latvia destiny in 3ways:alliance with Poland,Lithuania and Estonia(Allies way), Estonia, Finland, Latvia(axis way) and puppet/annex by SU(historical path)with or without resistance.
 

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Most probably not going to happen, because i will try to recreate Latvia destiny in 3ways:alliance with Poland,Lithuania and Estonia(Allies way), Estonia, Finland, Latvia(axis way) and puppet/annex by SU(historical path)with or without resistance.
Finland and Estonia were working on joint military projects in the Eastern Baltic, mostly laying mines in the Gulf of Finland. I'm sure Latvia could be taken if they asked nicely.
 

Sephy

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This will more like work this way Finland-Estonia alliance, and as Latvia is together alliance with Estonia they will join Finland too(coz Latvia dont want some Su base treaty just like Finland and Estonia).
 

Widar

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As long as it's an idea, resisting the Soviet Union is something I support all the time. But my doubts start increasing when I consider the 100+ Soviet Divisions in 1939. I know the mod will focus on having fun and maybe just taking that one little chance of "not being diplo-annexed" but this is hard stuff mate...it's the USSR we are talking about, and even with Finland and all the other Baltics, yet even with Poland, it's just going to prospone the defeat, that in the final moments will occur, either coming from Moscow or from Berlin (what I would be playing as :p).
Don't get me wrong, I like the thoughts behind it and will give it a go as well =)
 

Sephy

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Ohh you got me wrong. My mod is not about Latvia win and survive. Its loosing with different options and style :rofl:
 

Widar

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Ahhhhh that makes sense..sry if you mentioned that before somewhere. Cheers ^^
 

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Wasn't Latvia just simply absorbed into the Soviet Union right as the Second World War started?

Or, are you trying to set up the possibility for some a-historical options for Latvia?

EDIT: Read your idea for aide in the Winter War, great idea, just hope they'll be able to do something before being annexed by the massive Soviet army!

"Its loosing with different options and style" ;)
 
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Ithron

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Wasn't Latvia just simply absorbed into the Soviet Union right as the Second World War started?

Not really, Baltics were occupied in 1940, just as Paris fell and world's attention was located on France, rather than on some small countries located deep into the frying pan, far beyond British or American area of interest. But before that, in 1939, Soviets via help of ultimatums, got permission to put garrisons in all of the Baltic states. They wished to station similar garrison in Finland, but look how that ended..

Couple of points for Sephy:
- Nice to see such idea! :)

- If Baltics would fight, I have a feeling that Moscow would at least *consider* making them puppet states, rather than absorb them fully. After all, one of the central fetishisms Communists had and still have is for power and the more violent the power is, the more respect it can get from the totalitarian states. So fighting a loosing war against Soviets in 9 cases out of 10 would win much more respect than simply trying to "stick to every hope of autonomy that Soviets hint at".

- Latvian-Estonian-Finnish military alliance is a soft-science fiction, rather than an ahistorical result of some specific conference or treaty (in 30s there were no pan-baltic conferences or treaties that would have tried to implement a real unified defense structure, only on diplomatic level). However, there was the case of Baltic Entante. The closest to reality would be an event path starting from this Baltic Entante of Latvia - Estonia, a treaty signed in 1934 which historically led only to slight increase in cooperation. Maybe players should get several events about increasing and making this treaty more of a reality rather than just having a few meetings like it turned out IRL. For example - making a joint defense plan (a huge step forward), deciding on using the same weapon models (also very much needed step though costly at start, but governments showed their lack of strategic thinking by delaying it), deciding on the topic of "in what language should we give orders to troops when we have a mixed unit" (Russian was problematic because only old generations knew it and Russian speaking inhabitants were 3x less in numbers than nowadays), and finally - organizing real Lat-Est joint military wargames, especially on scale of large units (historically, wargames for larger units were too expensive for these small states to have them on regular basis, so there was some lack of skill in leading division scale units). Now imagine of such wargaming cooperation events happening IRL 30s not just with Estonia but also with Lithuania..and with Poland..and Finland.. thats too many low-chance events.. so unfortunatelly, there was too little time and too little possibilities for military alliance to form then.

- Going back a bit chronologically, after treaty of 1934 and first few set-up events for deeper cooperation, Latvia and Estonia - for some kind of reason - should abandon the idea of sticking with concept of collective security* as they did historically until ~1938 and quickly go from trying to get "relative neutrality" (attempted to go for it in 1938-1939) to "armed neutrality" ala Sweden and Switzerland, pissing Soviets and Nazis in the process even more. Maybe they could turn away from collective security if Czechs would fight the Germans and Soviets would also try to be active about it which would cause all to see that West is actually incapable and uncertain about helping the eastern states, so, Baltics (well, and the rest of threatened European minors which like Latvia and Estonia hoped on western help) would actually be instantly thrown into the cold shower of reality that "nobody will help you except yourself". That historically would lead to: actual, greater development of military fortification plans between Latvia and Estonia and gathering actual reserves of military supplies.

- So with that mindset (worried and without hope for western help), Latvia and Estonia would actually start to gather supplies and reserves for a possible warfare (contrary to what they did historically) and thus gain respect from Finland, which historically did gather military reserve supplies and started to prepare its production for producing wide range of military supplies. Plus, it did have some bits of heavy military industry. Only then would Finland even consider going into full alliance with any of the Baltic states. Of course Estonia would be first on their list, and the plan for stopping and jointly with Estonians and Polish fighting the Red Baltic fleet would be realized fully and increased to maximum.

- Case of Lithuania is different. The problem with it is that it is the major obstruction to Polish-Latvian alliance and without it, Poland wouldn't have alliance with Estonia, and without it, alliance between Poland and Finland is also only an insignificant possibility. However, Wilno problem is very much influenced by the dynamics between Germany and USSR, which by the 30s both have mastered this conflict to a great degree, to their great advantage. Their main goal being - slow any kind of regional cooperation that could lead to a military alliance by pushing Polish-Lithuanian conflict as much as possible. So, Wilno problem has to be solved as soon as possible, however, for a regional alliance to have enough time to happen after solving it, Wilno problem should be solved some time before total breakup of collective security system (which happened after Anchluss, Sudets and after March 15, 1939). So, the historical date when the Wilno problem began to be solved - March 17, 1938 (in the shadow of Anchluss..what a coincidence..), is just too late and historical results were too cold to lead to some regional cooperation.

- So, even if join military alliance between Latvia, Estonia and Finland is formed, it should very quickly via set of few events try to get Poland involved as well. The chance of that should be greater of Poland is not aggressive and does not participate in the Sudet crisis on the side of Germany.

- In case of Soviet-Baltic war, Baltic states were historically capable of holding against the troops that were stationed and prepared on the border - for some few weeks. With more proper military prepares (supplies, more modern weapons, some more prepared fortifications) they should hold for a month or two (take in mind this is Soviet army of 1939-1940, Winter war era, weak and poorly led). Ofc Baltics would be crushed the moment few more divisions would arrive from other regions - this is not Finnish landscape after all.



Some other things to consider:
-Soviet threat to go "help" the Czechs if Sudet crisis turns into war (probably by violently going through Poland or Romania in the process).

-German offer to Lithuania to join the attack on Poland.

- During the winter of 1939 and first half year of 1940 Baltics understood quite well that they were very, very late to start arming and that Soviets were a huge threat to their independence (most of governments also knew about secret protocols of Mol-Rib pact in very short time, so areas of influence were known even if doubted) so, they attempted to buy weapons (nearly impossible to get on international market after September, 1939) and they attempted to give tempting trade offers to Germany, so that it would reconsider its position of "we don't care for Baltics anymore". Germany was indeed tempted, but decided against influencing Soviets on the matter. I think this could be a nice alt-path for both Baltic and German players, if German player would wish to try to keep having these small trading partners during at least 1940-1941.

- An amusing fantasy path would be "division" of Lithuania between Poland and Latvia - though Latvia never expressed any idea like that - Lithuanians in the 30s did fear that Lithuania will become Latvian puppet state, if conflict with Poland goes badly and/or Lithuania gets even more internationally isolated (in the region Lithuania was mostly friendly with Germany and USSR). If Lithuania would be divided in such a manner, then military alliance between Latvia and Poland should proceed rather soon and Estonia could quite well join them.

(* I'd love to actually see some mod trying to implement collective security as a hard but real attainable goal and a peaceful solution to threats from aggressive states within the Hoi gameworlds :) )
 
Last edited:

Sephy

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About axis alliance i have plan only in case if Germany says no to MR pact.
 

Lord Finnish

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About axis alliance i have plan only in case if Germany says no to MR pact.
Germany would most certainly not ally with Latvia. Not only Latvia is of very dubious military value and it was also in Germany's hit list.
If Latvia would ally itself with anyone, it's the Finland-Estonia-Latvia pact, the Little Entente or the Allies.
 

Sephy

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Well, anyway as anhistorical way it will be for player to decide. Ai chance 0 :D
 

Lord Finnish

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Leave it as the first option. Latvia starts by asking Germany. If they reject then ask the Allies. If they reject ask Estonia.
That's what Finland did, and Germany was the only one with the guns and the balls to become a reasonable ally.
 

Ithron

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While Estonia should have 50% chance of asking Germany first and 50% chance of asking Allies first, Latvia should have only 10-20% chance of asking Germany first. Really, contrary to Estonia, Latvia considered that it has two enemies - Germany and USSR. Estonia considered that it has only one potential enemy - USSR. While Lithuania considered that it has two good friends - Germany and USSR and one great enemy - Poland.