Big Strong countries which should have more 'rebel' tags? England, Castille, etc.

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Krajzen

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One thing which baffles me in EU4 is that there are Big Strong Countries which esentially cannot break or divide on smaller tags - or theoretically can but practically they never do - despite their historical divisions. So unless they are - very rarely - conquered by something stronger (which is, I repeat, rare as they are Big Powerful Countries) they always remain in unchanged state from 1444 to 1821.

I am talking about:

1) England. It always dominates Britain (or both isles) and almost never falls. Historically England had long story of civil wars, feudal divisions, difficult wars with Scotland etc. but in EU4 England always remains in monolythic shape, easily devastates Scotland and basically nothing interesting happens in Britain unless human interevenes or some super rare anomaly happens (I have seen one Strange Screenshoot with Scotland beating England and one with France getting south, that's all).

Okay, I know historical England always dominated Isles in terms of demography/economy but still in EU4 it's conquest of Ireland and Scotland is way too easy. Furthermore, English Rebel Tags are ridiculously weak: there is Cornwall, Wales, York and Northumbria and even if they all rebelled in the same time, created coalition against England and had Scotland join them, they would still be crushed super easily.

I think it would be nice if some possibility of England dividing or falling existed.


2) Castille. Always devours Granada, always dominates Aragon in diplomatic or military way, never divides because it has no way to break. It has one OPM rebel tag, Galicia, which is of course completely doomed.

I would really like to see few more tags here, such as kingdoms of Leon, Toledo, Seville, stronger Galicia etc. so something different than 'Castille dominates Iberia and rules the seas, the end' may happen occasionally.


3) France. I know what all of you think - France consists of countless OPM minors. The problem is, once they are annexed (and they are always annexed) and unless outside superpower forces France to release them, big blue blob has never any problems with separatists in its borders. I think it is completely ridiculous, given that historical France spend majority of 16th century on fighting very difficult internal wars. In EU4 it always ends in the same way: France devours OPMs and from this point remains united forever, impossible to break without 90% warscore against it, the end. Even such distinctive countries as Brittany or Provence virtually never oppose the domination of Paris.



Other countries which IMHO should have more 'ways to break':

- Korea, historically it was very often divided on few different kingdoms and in EU4 it is always monolythic Korea which easily conquers Manchu (or even parts of Japan) due to complete lack of any internal difficulties.

- Ming - it is cool it can be divided between Zhou/Xi/Shun/Miao/Yi but it could have few more rebel tags and much more important: rebel countries of fallen Ming definitely should focus on reuniting China and should have a possibility to restore Celestial Empire!

- Mamluks. No tags for Palestine, Jordania, also always - united Egypt?

- Sweden. Uhm, I don't know much about it's history but I often feel Finland in EU4 is culturally dominated by Sweden way too easily. Also... Can any more tags be added to Scandinavia, or was it always dominated by Norway/Sweden/Denmark?
 
Last edited:

PiriReis

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2) Castille. Always devours Granada, always dominates Aragon in diplomatic or military way, never divides because it has no way to break. It has one OPM rebel tag, Galicia, which is of course completely doomed.

Remove those ahistorical cores on Granada and add Leon to the game.

- Mamluks. No tags for Palestine, Jordania, also always - united Egypt?

There is already an Egypt tag. Jordan is an European construct.

Btw there is now the client states mechanic.
 

grommile

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England's internal disputes in the period were largely of the form "this law is bad", "I should be king, not you" or "we should have no king".

None of these are terribly well-suited to being represented by persistent revolter tags.
 

Yorkie-GBR

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I see a lot of confirmation bias in the OP.

Whilst England did have internal problems there was little to no "independence" movements from York or Northumbria. The revolts were "class" based and as such have been represented in the game.

England also has a lot of DHE which can cripple, forestall the domination of the isles which is the primary target of you OP, please feel free to correct me if this assumption is incorrect.

So along with the WoR, The Lollards, The english civil war and the possibility of the Peasants war [its influence is on the Peasants revolt that took place in England] and yet you want more to cripple England.

Its not about nerfing a nation that already has more than its fair share of crippling DHE's, but more of a buff to the surrounding nations. You don't stop England from crushing Scotland by simpling ignoring the problem and giving England a distraction, you look at the root of the problem and buff the weakness that is Scotland and the Irish OPM.
 

SignedName

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Other countries which IMHO should have more 'ways to break':

- Korea, historically it was very often divided on few different kingdoms and in EU4 it is always monolythic Korea which easily conquers Manchu (or even parts of Japan) due to complete lack of any internal difficulties.
You do realize that the three-kingdoms period was way before the start date, right? The Joseon Dynasty survived for nearly 600 years until it got annexed by Japan in 1905.
 

TheMeInTeam

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Revolter tags in England/Castile are hard to justify easily, you could maybe reach in Castile.

France, BTW, can be WE camped. Long after cores in Guyenne are gone, you can make new cores with a little doing, essentially ripping up 2/3 of France into other factions in one go. The utility of this after the 1594 cores disappear is limited though, since by the later 1600's you're in client state territory anyway.
 

Yorkie-GBR

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And some smaller duchies in England also wouldn't hurt.

There is no Historical Pretext for this, the only country that are viable are Cornwall, and Northumbria. The latter is even stretching it as the "cores" would have disappeared by 12th century.
 

grommile

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I agree some more tags would be nice. Léon tag being an new big tag in Castille would be good. And some smaller duchies in England also wouldn't hurt.
The things people complain about with regard to England would not be solved by creating revolter tags for Norfolk and the Marches.

(And honestly, considering what my standard opening gambit as France is, I'd actually consider removing Wales, Northumberland, and Cornwall's cores.)
 

cahtush

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I guess you could add a Gothia tag in southern Sweden and a Sapmi tag to all sami provinces.
The Gothia Cores should disappear pretty fast though.