Biffa: "I have some things I need to say about Cities Skylines 2"

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Paradox was the one to blame to all this mess in City Skylines II

After suffering a huge 23 million dollars loses from Lamplighters League, Paradox was in a rush to make their balance sheets look nicer by the end of the 2023 fiscal year. And so they released City Skylines II, not because the game was in its furnished and ready state, but because they need a huge source of revenue to write-off their loses. That way they have a face to show to their shareholders.

Really sucks that it's always the gamers that have to suffer all the consequences of a greedy corporate gaming company.
 
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Paradox was the one to blame to all this mess in City Skylines II

After suffering a huge 23 million dollars loses from Lamplighters League, Paradox was in a rush to make their balance sheets look nicer by the end of the 2023 fiscal year. And so they released City Skylines II, not because the game was in its furnished and ready state, but because they need a huge source of revenue to write-off their loses. That way they have a face to show to their shareholders.

Really sucks that it's always the gamers that have to suffer all the consequences of a greedy corporate gaming company.
^^ better to release unready and disappoint rather than end up with no product at all and devs being laid off.

I bet releasing in this state was not an easy decision at all but a necessary one due to that line that must always go up else they get abandoned. Shareholders don't care if gamers are happy or not, they make their buck and sell up and look for the next stock, they don't really have any investment in the long term success of the company more the short term success is often good enough
 
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^^ better to release unready and disappoint rather than end up with no product at all and devs being laid off.

I bet releasing in this state was not an easy decision at all but a necessary one due to that line that must always go up else they get abandoned. Shareholders don't care if gamers are happy or not, they make their buck and sell up and look for the next stock, they don't really have any investment in the long term success of the company more the short term success is often good enough
Gamers aren't the only ones getting bent by these decisions, developers are too. They're routinely forced to work insanely long hours, covering multiple positions, and getting snubbed on promotion pay in this industry. It's a very select few at the top pulling this kind of tactic just so they can make a few extra pennies on a dollar.

So I understand your logic, but it's not some hard strategic business plan in a difficult set of circumstances, it's looking more akin to a "pump and dump" -- and it's happening more and more often right now.

The entire Star Trek Infinite dev team was just laid off. Who knows if the issues with that one will ever get fixed?
 
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Paradox was the one to blame to all this mess in City Skylines II

After suffering a huge 23 million dollars loses from Lamplighters League, Paradox was in a rush to make their balance sheets look nicer by the end of the 2023 fiscal year. And so they released City Skylines II, not because the game was in its furnished and ready state, but because they need a huge source of revenue to write-off their loses. That way they have a face to show to their shareholders.

Really sucks that it's always the gamers that have to suffer all the consequences of a greedy corporate gaming company.
You got the right answer but the wrong reason.

Paradox wouldn't have cared if Lamplighters League sold 5 million copies.

They still would have rushed out CS2 because that's what Paradox does. They set the release date, unleash the marketing machine to get pre-orders and then apologise to customers for the poor quality at launch and tell everyone they will be working on patches that release alongside the DLC.

When was the last good launch for a PDX game? CK3. That was four years ago.
 
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You got the right answer but the wrong reason.

Paradox wouldn't have cared if Lamplighters League sold 5 million copies.

They still would have rushed out CS2 because that's what Paradox does. They set the release date, unleash the marketing machine to get pre-orders and then apologise to customers for the poor quality at launch and tell everyone they will be working on patches that release alongside the DLC.

When was the last good launch for a PDX game? CK3. That was four years ago.
Eh CK3 was "fine" but pretty barebones. Then development on it was slow. Hoi4 was released in 2016(?) and didn't have fuel on release... Something is clearly not going right under Paradox Interactive. They need to figure some stuff out.
 
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Regardless of how late the release is, if it's sooner than it should be, it's still rushed.

How many more years would you continue to fund CO with no return on your investment? Another 3? 5? 10?

I'm certainly not defending Paradox, but let's be real - there comes a point that the shareholders reach a breaking point and expect CO to deliver on a product that THEY set. A product that has been in development since 2016 and has been delayed for over 3 years.

I see all this blame to Paradox about forcing a release after years of development, yet very little blame to CO about their accountability over clearly over promising and under delivering to say the least.

Moving forward though, I'm not confident that even they understand everything broken with this "simulation" nor how to fix it. I do hope I'm wrong but it pains me to have lost all faith in CO and they aren't getting another dime from me in future DLCs.
 
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How many more years would you continue to fund CO with no return on your investment? Another 3? 5? 10?

I'm certainly not defending Paradox, but let's be real - there comes a point that the shareholders reach a breaking point and expect CO to deliver on a product that THEY set. A product that has been in development since 2016 and has been delayed for over 3 years.

I see all this blame to Paradox about forcing a release after years of development, yet very little blame to CO about their accountability over clearly over promising and under delivering to say the least.

Moving forward though, I'm not confident that even they understand everything broken with this "simulation" nor how to fix it. I do hope I'm wrong but it pains me to have lost all faith in CO and they aren't getting another dime from me in future DLCs.

You are right.

And as this is developed in Unity, they could much more easily outsource a part of their work to specialists to deal with that performance and other issues prevalent in the game but I imagine they took a suck it and see perspective and towed the line of ‘this game is built for the next generation of cpus and gpu’s and that was probably part done because there was no budget left by the time they updated it to a newer version of unity and application dependencies and they then brought the release of the game forward.

Aka a cop out mixed with difficult economics.

But my nearest comparison is to Bannerlord and Taleworlds, they turned the games performance problems around within a year of releasing into early access and I suspect they hired contractors but they have had community misgivings they still haven’t lived up to. The two probably arnt that comparable though as I think Bannerlord was a big big release and sold more and essentially was released twice, early access for pc only and then full release to consoles - but that still gives me hope.

And Mariina is the one that can kindle it.
 
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It is actually very interesting to see how people apparently view the time between start 2020 and end of 2022 have no effect on the effectiveness of software companies. I wonder what the game would have looked like when it had been released then.
 
It is actually very interesting to see how people apparently view the time between start 2020 and end of 2022 have no effect on the effectiveness of software companies. I wonder what the game would have looked like when it had been released then.
It's not just here, it's like people have forgotten what happened.
 
It is actually very interesting to see how people apparently view the time between start 2020 and end of 2022 have no effect on the effectiveness of software companies. I wonder what the game would have looked like when it had been released then.
I am a software dev that worked before, during, and currently in the industry. In terms of productivity, nothing changed. Actually, I got more productive as WFH became an option. I also worked at 3 different companies at this time. The pandemic has very little impact for development. If CO couldn't figure out how to make it work, then that is on them.

Also if they were originally planning on releasing in late 2020, early 2021, the game should have been quite far along when the pandemic hit. It would be a lot of polish work in fixing bugs and such. CO doesn't get a break from me on this.
 
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It is actually very interesting to see how people apparently view the time between start 2020 and end of 2022 have no effect on the effectiveness of software companies. I wonder what the game would have looked like when it had been released then.

How that would explain Elder Ring or all the successful and polished games developed during the Covid era?
 
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Is the situation around CS2 even fixable at this moment?
I played CS2 for over than 600 hours. I basically paused the simulation, as to be honest a lot if simulations are fake (=does not have any effect whatsoever). For whole time I was creating intricate intersections, functional and nice layouts and terraforming to create interesting city. And to be honest I love road building in CS2, once I learned how to force game to do what I want, I started to build beautiful intersections. Where I hoped that the game will be fixed in the future. Unfortunately, since last update my game started to crash once uncaused. It is happening on some saves, where one of the older ones usually work, so I can go back in time and rebuild what I lost. Saves are broken periodically, probably every day I play it happens.
With decreasing player base, decision to release patches with major updates. I hope that we are reading the last message of CEO incorrectly, that the game would be improved by paid DLC, but it makes sense. In base game you have fake industry, do you want something more realistic? Here is Industry DLC. Do you want to have control what shops are created? Here is commercial DLC. Do you want to have more control over the traffic? Here is Traffic DLC. Do you know where I am going with this?
Or I am wrong, and the future would be different. Something like: Here you have support for custom assets and mods, please fix the game yourself for free.
If I would be at least little bit naive, I would believe that we, gamers, would receive and apology from CO and Paradox, they would postpone DLCs and console release, i.e. their next source of income, and focus on improving the core of the game.
I love the CS2, and I would like to believe it still can be successful in a long run, but more and more my hopes are slimming.
 
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It is actually very interesting to see how people apparently view the time between start 2020 and end of 2022 have no effect on the effectiveness of software companies. I wonder what the game would have looked like when it had been released then.

What? Software companies were one of least affected industries during the pandemic. I'm a contractor that did work for about 10 companies during that time, and most of them actually grew.

There were also record PC sales because everyone was stuck at home doing work from home (when applicable, like software development, including game development), playing games, watching online content (which also meant an increased need for remote work).
 
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What? Software companies were one of least affected industries during the pandemic. I'm a contractor that did work for about 10 companies during that time, and most of them actually grew.

There were also record PC sales because everyone was stuck at home doing work from home (when applicable, like software development, including game development), playing games, watching online content (which also meant an increased need for remote work).
Agreed. The only studios I've seen affected by recent world events have been Ukrainian and Russian based. (RIP, S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2)
 
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What? Software companies were one of least affected industries during the pandemic. I'm a contractor that did work for about 10 companies during that time, and most of them actually grew.

There were also record PC sales because everyone was stuck at home doing work from home (when applicable, like software development, including game development), playing games, watching online content (which also meant an increased need for remote work).
This, and by the way WFH is great for those who actually embraced it with a positive mindset. Dare I say, even more productive, because people spend less energy in their cars or taking a train. Some companies I talk with went all the way, completely ridding themselves of most of their office space.
 
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I am a software dev that worked before, during, and currently in the industry. In terms of productivity, nothing changed. Actually, I got more productive as WFH became an option. I also worked at 3 different companies at this time. The pandemic has very little impact for development. If CO couldn't figure out how to make it work, then that is on them.

Also if they were originally planning on releasing in late 2020, early 2021, the game should have been quite far along when the pandemic hit. It would be a lot of polish work in fixing bugs and such. CO doesn't get a break from me on this.

Yeah, I'm a Software Engineer and the company I worked for had no issues with transitioning to WFH and it ended up almost doubling in growth just the first year of the pandemic - slightly less in the second year, but still growing none the less.

To use the pandemic as an excuse is ludicrous in this business.
 
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