Biffa: "I have some things I need to say about Cities Skylines 2"

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DJQuad

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Mar 12, 2015
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Biffa and other CS2 content creators have been expressing their frustrations, some have even abandoned their series due to the current state of the game. What do others think about this?
 
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I don't have particularly strong feelings on this, as I rarely watch these YouTubers. But I'm not surprised they're doing this. More people are playing CS1 than CS2 now, and since content creation is literally what puts food on those people's tables, it's no wonder they decide to drop/scale back content related to a game that is actively diminishing in popularity.
 
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Yeah OK, but let's also not pretend it's not a problem when it clearly is.

There is a difference between not succumbing to one-sided negativity and seeing the state of the game as it is.

Surely you are not suggesting it's just some youtubers creating artificial negativity about this game? Have you seen the stats on the player count?
 
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What makes this video stand out is the fact that it is NOT just a rant. It presents the issues in a clear way and he even offers suggestions as to how it can be improved. He also ends on an upbeat tone by stating he hopes the game can turn around so it can be what it was intended to be from the start. Biffa is also one of the youtubers who was allowed to play the alpha version of the game.

He also drew an interesting analogy to the game No Man's Sky (disclaimer: I have not played this game). Apparently it had a botched launch similar to CS2 where it overpromised and underdelivered, but the devs eventually turned the game around. So there is a precedent for that sort of turnaround.
 
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Yeah OK, but let's also not pretend it's not a problem when it clearly is.

There is a difference between not succumbing to one-sided negativity and seeing the state of the game as it is.

Surely you are not suggesting it's just some youtubers creating artificial negativity about this game? Have you seen the stats on the player count?
no, i'm suggesting who cares what youtubers think.

and who cares what the player count is, my game functions exatly the same whether there are thousands playing or its just me.
 
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If we want this thread to stay open, let's see if we can't contribute something new to the discussion.
 
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What makes this video stand out is the fact that it is NOT just a rant. It presents the issues in a clear way and he even offers suggestions as to how it can be improved. He also ends on an upbeat tone by stating he hopes the game can turn around so it can be what it was intended to be from the start. Biffa is also one of the youtubers who was allowed to play the alpha version of the game.

He also drew an interesting analogy to the game No Man's Sky (disclaimer: I have not played this game). Apparently it had a botched launch similar to CS2 where it overpromised and underdelivered, but the devs eventually turned the game around. So there is a precedent for that sort of turnaround.
Yes, I was also a little surprised to see this immediate negative reaction to what he (Biffa) said in the video, when he really spoke in a balanced way. Maybe there is only so much excuses you can make and for so long. But even now, they (he & others) are IMO paying attention not to 'overcorrect' and still try to be fair.

Maybe it was Phil's (City Planner Plays) recent interview which nudged the others to disclose their more negative feedback...
 
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no, i'm suggesting who cares what youtubers think.

and who cares what the player count is, my game functions exatly the same whether there are thousands playing or its just me.
Well, some people do care what certain youtubers think. Biffa is one of the better known youtubers among those who do let's plays of CS1/CS2. I care what he thinks because he has my respect. I also care what some people on the forum think as well. It helped me make the decision to pass on this game at this time. For me, this game is not going to cost the price on Steam, but that plus the cost of a new gaming rig because my aging one is too outdated to run it.

So if the game is working for you, that's great. I hope you're having fun with it. But for those of us still on the fence about it, we need our information sources, and the video posted by the OP is one of them, and one of the better ones at that specifically because it is not just a rant.
 
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I don't have particularly strong feelings on this, as I rarely watch these YouTubers. But I'm not surprised they're doing this. More people are playing CS1 than CS2 now, and since content creation is literally what puts food on those people's tables, it's no wonder they decide to drop/scale back content related to a game that is actively diminishing in popularity.
Same. I had never really watched any CS1 Youtubers (or really any CS2 content post-launch) because it wasn't my playstyle, but I figured once it was announced that asset importing wasn't going to be available at launch, then these content creators wouldn't have that much to milk out of the game.
 
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Didn't he help market the game in beta?

Not really watched the video in full or his channel, but skimmed over it, is just saying what most others who live in reality and not in a rose tinted world are saying.. Game is unfinished, full of bugs, underperforming, lacking and .... maybe, some time in the future, certainly not soon™, it may eventually get there.
 
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Alot of their testers /content creators / YouTubers had called quits somewhat playing cs2 but very little are playing the game and moved on to other games that were polled by their watchers and steam showing 90 percent are not playing cs2 anymore so big data for you to see cs2 is not on steam top 100 most played games it’s 140 with 8400 playing and top peak15000 and thats it. Also it not being on console tells you pc player numbers playing are real low. From november 104000 to now just 14000
 

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What do others think about this?

Suspicious. It's just suspicious that PDX trusted video creators which were actually also testers decide to post such videos right now at basically the same time... A bit too suspicious to me.

Somehow like a planned move especially because of Biffas "Maybe... maybe someone at CO sees this video..." while he actually has a direct link to them - he could just write a mail or the not so public Discord to provide feedback directly ;)

Thinking outside of the box I would not be that surprised if there will be some announcement for some new features or content pretty soon...
 
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Suspicious. It's just suspicious that PDX trusted video creators which were actually also testers decide to post such videos right now at basically the same time... A bit too suspicious to me.

Somehow like a planned move especially because of Biffas "Maybe... maybe someone at CO sees this video..." while he actually has a direct link to them - he could just write a mail or the not so public Discord to provide feedback directly ;)

Thinking outside of the box I would not be that surprised if there will be some announcement for some new features or content pretty soon...
Okay, I'll bite.

So how is this suspicious? What do you believe these youtubers have to gain from all this other than a little bit of attention? The video is not making anything up. Everything detailed in there are bona-fide issues with the game. And how is expressing a hope that CO sees the video evidence of some conspiracy? All you are presenting is supposition. Where is your proof that something unsavory is going on here? As far as I am aware, neither Biffa nor the other youtubers who helped alpha-test the game received any compensation for their time.
 
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He also drew an interesting analogy to the game No Man's Sky (disclaimer: I have not played this game). Apparently it had a botched launch similar to CS2 where it overpromised and underdelivered, but the devs eventually turned the game around. So there is a precedent for that sort of turnaround.
No Mans Sky and Hello Games have a completely different philosophy from CS2 and Paradox. Hello Games first was inexperienced in making games and managing expectations: they were a new studio, and Sean Murray is not a public speaker and not great at handling the media. NMS did release a botched game that overpromised and full of bugs, but the next few years they hunkered down, did a ton of free DLCs and turned it around. Most importantly, they had humility; they never accused the community that it was their fault of too high expectations or that the game wasn’t for them, apologise for that quote but say similar stuff in future communications, they didn’t add DLC: They just took the heat, got back to work and fixed the game they promised to make, with wild success. And added DLC and huge expansions to the game when it was ready for it - all for free.

This is a completely different situation. Paradox is a billion dollar company. CO have had plenty of experience of releasing the same genre of video games, the prequel being one of the games of the decade. Their dogged approach of “release now, fix later with paid DLC” is completely opposite to how Hello Games approached it. CO have already started working on DLC when the game is imo no way near close to ready for it. This strategy would be working if like CS1 the core gameplay was up and running: but it isn’t by any means.

Their PR has been an absolute nightmare: as above, they are constantly switching from reconciliation to threatening to cut the chord. These DLC decisions, which could have been spun as fulfilling promises to Ultimate Edition players, instead feels like a slap in the face to people who want to be able to play the game. CO have been lurching through the extremes with their messaging - from having no WOTW to now there is, outright blaming the community for the game which they were responsible for, apologising on it then doubling down in another way (expectations are too high [due to their own marketing practices]).

And most importantly for me, they have taken 0 accountability for the incredibly poor state of the game post release. Not even a sorry for the poor state of the game post release and their marketing practices; no taking responsibility: it was our fault, we deeply apologise for letting you down, and here is what we are going to do to fix it. No communication on what went wrong - modding which was promised hours if not days after, Creator Assets packs “coming soon”. Instead, their communications feel deeply hurtful from my perspective who spent hundreds on their previous DLC and was incredibly looking forward to CS2. A lot of words and no action, which is ironic considering the amount of times they have stressed how much they prefer action over words.

We all want CO to have the idealism of NMS, but all of their actions: the complete lack of accountability and humility, their core philosophy, the blaming of the community; suggests that it would be the opposite. Again, prove me wrong though CO - I want to come back to this comment and say how wrong I was.
 
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These DLC decisions, which could have been spun as fulfilling promises to Ultimate Edition

Having bought UE I'd rather they delay the promised DLC to UE and concentrate on the plethora of issues first.

What good is future DLC and waiting for that to be complete before patches, when the game is in a mess right now and has been since launch :(
It's just not worth playing, there's too much wrong with it and missing, so for me, its shelved and I've pretty much lost interest at this point, especially since the patches are in my opinion, pathetic! for the time they take and the actual fixes included. Its been months, the game shouldn't be in this state at this point, but "everything is fine".

Sure DLC may come with patches that fix some stuff and break a lot more, and in a year, it may start getting to where it should have begun, but it will take more than that to even slightly undo some of the damage done, imo, such as if they pull their fingers out, get their priorities straight and sort this mess out with a proper apology to boot, rather than blaming us for buying into their marketting and then being called toxic for voicing opinions.

For those that love it, good for you, I like a lot about it too, but I have very little desire to play a broken game and pretend its all ok and things matter.
Shame, I want it to succeed, but it seems CO/Paradox just want the money, succeed or not. It's already a success for their bank balance I'm sure.
 
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(Sorry for these long messages, just felt what should be done lol).

So, what’s the fix? Biffa in his videos talked about what can be done to fix things as part of the video. I think the very first thing is to rebuild trust in the community and halt the decline of CS2. If I was CO, here is part of the message I would write next week.

“ [Insert statements on what’s IN WOTW]
First, we need to talk about the elephant in the room: the state of the game post release, accountability and the community. Through our feedback, we have recognised that a lot of users feel frustrated at the lack of accountability on behalf of CO on taking responsibility for the state of the game post release. Although it was joint decision by Paradox and CO, ultimately as CEO, I bear a lot of the responsibility for agreeing to this games release. I know that what I say cannot make amends for what has happened, but I can I say am deeply sorry for my mistake and ask for your forgiveness. The game was not given the attention and love it deserved, both for you and from us. We failed to make a product that was deserving to be made a sequel to CS1, and we made a bad decision to push out the game so early when it needed more time. As CEO, I would like to humbly apologies on behalf of CO for the mistakes we made before, during and after development and for the words i had written post release, which has sparked alot of confusion, anger and disappointment. It was not my intention to do so.

[Insert what went wrong in the games development, why it was pushed out so badly, what happened?]

Finally, I would like to make a humble appeal to the community. Although I know a lot of criticism about the game has been done in good faith, we have noticed an uptick in negativity in our forums and on our other platforms and content creators. These reports are justified, considering the state of our release. However, we have personally experienced a lot of personal attacks and unacceptable language levied against us, including [ ]. We cannot allow such language to be lobbied against our fellow employees, and have to remove these to protect them. These languages are really unhelpful and hurt, and we humbly ask that such comments be toned down, so we can look thorugh feedback properly so we can fix the problems that are currently ingame. I understand alot of people are frustrated about the games state, but having such unhelpful comments makes it really difficult for us to decipher which is proper criticism that needs to be put in the game and which is not.

However, I would like to stress this is a tiny part of the community, and the rest of it has made valid criticism about our game and our design philosophy. Constructive criticism is going to be key to us moving forward post release, and we will do whatever it takes to regain back the faith in our community. I hope it is not too late for that, and again I’m deeply sorry for the state of the game post release.

Actions however, speak louder than words, and I have written a lot about the latter. These are the things that we will do which we hope will help win back your trust in the community and give the game the love it deserves

1) Refunds: [Either cut the price of the base game, or a free Expansion DLC with actual mechanics like Parklife. Not a Radio Station DLC.]
2) Modding: [What went wrong? Why was it delayed so badly? When will it get out from beta to release ETA?]
3) Assests: [Explain what happened, why it was delayed, and when will it be released]
4) DLC: I recognise that our decision to working on the Ultimate Edition DLC before is controversial, and we are aware of the message it is creating that we are putting profits before the community. However, we feel that it is the right decision to help rebuild trust for the players who have purchased the Ultimate Edition and fulfill our promises. Following our commitments to Ultimate Edition players, we will be putting a pause on any future DLC until the game is in an acceptable state for it.
5) Future Plans: [ Bugfixes - more of it and not just with DLC releases, improving of simulation and removal of safeguards, transparency ingame on what is happening under the hood]
* 6) Feedback - We have re-established Discord communications with content creators to help us get more feedback on what tools players need most urgently in CS2 apart from generic bug fixing and performance improvements. Part of this is also reaching out to you here on this forum, so ple help us with this as well!

These actions are only the first step towards reconciliation with the community, which has helped made us into what we have been today. Much more needs to be done to rebuild your trust, which will be laid out more in the future. But I want to stress that CS would not have been possible without you, the consumer. Thank you for your support and it would not have been possible without you.
"
Imo, I think its a good first step: take responsibility, apologise for things of their own making, taking the stand that toxicity in the form of personal attacks are not allowed whilst understanding the vast majority are here to provide constructive criticism, rather than alienating an increasing majority of disillusioned fans.

Once they have the feedback, break down the data sets; what is most urgent and work on it from there.
 
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and who cares what the player count is, my game functions exatly the same whether there are thousands playing or its just me.
If you are happy with the current state of the game, and do not need it to be expanded with patches and DLC, then sure, you have no reason to care. But if you want this game to keep being developed, then you probably should care, as if people stop playing, CO will have little reason to keep working on it. Why bother releasing DLCs when nobody's there to buy them?
 
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