Bickering thread
- Thread starter CmdrDunsail
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I honestly don't know where else to put this but I can't believe I didn't realize Dice Tower hit the Intro Box way in 2011. And it's a pretty fair review too!
Dude, Shadow Hawk really is at an advantage for stuff lighter than it. Then you start facing Centurions, Trebuchets, Quickdraws and start going:
"My body is not ready."
"My body is not ready."
Shadow Hawks ~ raising Hell since... well... a long time ago in a universe that may or may not be far, far away.
People have been too distracted by the game streams to spend time wrecking stuff.This place is still standing I see...almost disappointing...
Also, welcome back!
This place is still standing I see...almost disappointing...
Look, I just couldn't get the space bears here quick enough to deal with it. Been busy.
Yeah Adam, I'm going to have to disagree there, MWO only exists because of TT. If there was no TT MWO would most likely never have come to be. There might have been another game that had big robots smashing each other, but it wouldn't have been Battletech or MechWarrior. Battletech is the one that started it all....then came the TT version of MechWarrior which was the role-playing game aspect of the universe which covered things when your characters were outside your mechs. Then came the video games, quite a few over the years, including Mechwarior which was based on....you guessed it....Battletech. MechWarrior 2 was all about the clans. MW3 came back to the I.S. And MechWarrior 4 brought us the whole hardpoint system. MWO came after that, and continued the hardpoint silliness, but it is what it is. MWO is based on Battletech, and I say based since Battletech never had hardpoints (still doesn't).
Timaeus, as far as refit kits go, they aren't any sort of abstraction of hardpoints at all, they are a mechanic to reduce time and cost to convert a mech from one type to another, but aren't needed to be used, else they're called a "one time" customization. Some of those involve needing a maintenance facility (by that particular ruleset), but that's all they do. In fact if you want to look at it one way, refit kits kinda prove that hardpoints don't exist by their very nature. They're just a set of blueprints and some prefab mounting brackets/wiring harnesses/ instructions/ whatever is needed on how to do a conversion to simplify the process.
They basically would take one mech chassis and convert it into another variant that had a different hardpoint layout for weapons if you want to look at it that way. therefore a refit kit can magically change hardpoints......ergo hardpoints don't exist in TT.
But all the rules I've read on it says that refit kits aren't even required to make any customizations, just that they make them easier and faster to do.
Timaeus, as far as refit kits go, they aren't any sort of abstraction of hardpoints at all, they are a mechanic to reduce time and cost to convert a mech from one type to another, but aren't needed to be used, else they're called a "one time" customization. Some of those involve needing a maintenance facility (by that particular ruleset), but that's all they do. In fact if you want to look at it one way, refit kits kinda prove that hardpoints don't exist by their very nature. They're just a set of blueprints and some prefab mounting brackets/wiring harnesses/ instructions/ whatever is needed on how to do a conversion to simplify the process.
They basically would take one mech chassis and convert it into another variant that had a different hardpoint layout for weapons if you want to look at it that way. therefore a refit kit can magically change hardpoints......ergo hardpoints don't exist in TT.
But all the rules I've read on it says that refit kits aren't even required to make any customizations, just that they make them easier and faster to do.
This place is still standing I see...almost disappointing...
DE QUEEN
NO. It's not refit kits are an abstraction of hardpoints, it's hardpoints are an abstraction of refit kits. Get it right. I have explained this before, please stop treating it like the idea of hardpoints don't exist because of lore, when the very first refit kit type (A) exchanges the same type weapon for another of equal or smaller size. As for requirement of refit kits, you are correct that they are not required (they do decrease the difficulty mod); however you are incorrect that they have no bearing on customization as the levels of refit kits directly affect what you are allowed to customize based on the resources at hand (In field, Maintenance bay, Factory) even if you do not have the kit.
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Which works a lot better than the Refit Kit system in the context of 3025-era video game, I think. As far as the tabletop goes, I'm of mixed mind. The discussion of it as "Omnipods Lite" isn't far off, but at the same time it's not something the game rules don't already permit with time, tools, and money enough. Personally I'm more a fan of taking the entire "Repair and Refit" section of Strategic Operations and starting over.
But that's mostly because I've been head down in it for two years wrestling with the data during a campaign and trying to figure out why some decisions were made in the design period.
Right, and it isn’t even that hard to ignore any sembalence of hardpoints. The next tier refit lets you change weapon type as long as it isn’t bigger. Tier c, the first that actually requires a mechbay, lets you swap a CN9-As AC/10 for an AC/20. Tier F, requiring a factory, is where you can change engines. Yet most computer games heavily limit weapon setups while making engines easy to change.
Yes, and in this game (and others) the option to change type is explicitly denied to us. At which point you have hardpoints.
I'll note - factory access is one of those things merc outfits probably won't have happen "whenever we want". Even with the Argo fully restored, it wouldn't be a factory-level facility.