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Hatchy

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Is it worth noting Nicholas Meyer also didn't know anything when he made Wrath of Khan? No? Just a thought.

The difference is one movie was really good, the other one was no better than a high school play with the actors doing impersonations of the characters.
cJMWboC.png
 

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Lol trying to compare Meyer to JJ Abrams.

One of them isn't a hack and actually had passion for his project.
 
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Skoll-

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Meyer gave us what is probably the best Star Trek film hands down, still standing that test of time almost 40 years later.

JJ has given us... Lens flare stereotypes?
 

Prussian Havoc

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Khan.jpg

Wrath of Khan (1982) ~ Big and Stompy in Space
alternately, In Space, no one can hear you Big and Stompy

(*even before Jordan invented 3025 Big and Stompy)
 

Ac0lyte

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Well... that devolved into personal attack pretty quickly... I know this is the bickering thread, but you might want to cool your jets just a little.

- Shane
 

Prussian Havoc

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Still my favorite Space Battle, even considering Star Wars and Battlestar Galactic (04).
 

CmdrDunsail

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why doesn't someone just crowdfund a bunch of fans to buy the rights

Microsoft isn't in the habit of selling off their game IP's even if it's a lucrative offer. If Jordan the father of Battletech and former Microsoft Creative Director who helped successfully launch the X-box couldn't buy them back with financing backers, the community won't be able to crowdfund that kind of money without guarantees that can't be given, including the fact the other half of the IP would also have to be acquired from Topps/Tornante. On the scale of possible to unlikely to impossible, that's a decimal point off from impossible. :(
 

Iron Legionnaire

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Oh, we're doing this? Well it's the Bickering Thread, and people decided to go aggressive and dismissive so let's play.

This assumptive crap now in a rush to discredit and slam J.J. Abrams? I wasn't referring to J.J., but Quentin - who I think might be able to do a decent enough movie. And people still tell me Wrath of Khan wasn't "real Star Trek", due to the ramping up of action, saying the Original Series timeline ended with "The Motion Picture".

You can disagree and slam me about bringing anything about this up but the problem with Star Trek in every stripe is in the basis of its conception. The central conceit which doesn't work when subjected to deeper analysis, yet it wants you to do that analysis at the same time. It's as bad as Star Wars at that, in the sense its base arrangement was never meant to hold all the philosophical and sociological analysis people hang on it. George Lucas wanted to make a good movie and tell an entertaining story, not to design a mythos which bears up scrutiny for half a century. Gene Roddenberry wanted a paycheck, and happened on an idea which got some talented actors and writers behind it and caught the spark of imagination. But neither of these things as a whole stand up to full analysis, as George needed to do a lot more work over his story ideas than what happened and Gene needed to stop and think about the implications of what he was pushing for. Star Wars succeeded because of George Lucas and in spite of him, Star Trek succeeded because of the actors and in spite of Gene.

Just because someone else has their hands on it, or someone else got talked about being part of it? Doesn't make it good or bad if they knew anything about the IP going in. Nicholas Meyer didn't know anything and had his view of Star Trek which became canon so hard it revitalized the franchise. J.J Abrams had his own view, and it divided the fans on whether it was good or not. And then there's Berman and Braga, who killed the franchise hard enough it took tapping J.J. to get interest in it again. There's plenty of blame, shame, and admiration to go around within the franchise, people have "tried to kill it twice" and it came back each time different than the previous incarnations.

Do I like what happened with the reboot? I wouldn't know, I missed the second movie onwards due to RL preventing me from really getting to. After the fans got out the long knives, I decided to skip it - I don't go where I'm not wanted, and if I happened to enjoy the film I definitely wasn't going to be wanted. I (mostly) liked what happened when the premise was turned on its head in Deep Space Nine, I liked the idea (but not execution) of Voyager, and I really wish Enterprise had been given to someone else. I like about half of The Next Generation, and less of that the Original Series, but I really enjoy the majority of the movies.

If people really have a problem with the franchise existing or being handed off to people, why doesn't someone just crowdfund a bunch of fans to buy the rights up and then you all can decide as a group who gets to make the movies or shows or fiction instead? You could call yourself Peaceful Pyrite and sue people who publish anything which has nacelles. I'm sure nothing bad would come of that.

Of course, this is all just my opinion, I could be wrong.

I think that this speaks to both the good and bad aspects of fandom. On the one hand, it's great when people are passionate enough about something to appreciate it down to the minutiae. Where it becomes a problem is when someone becomes so invested in that minutiae that it blinds you to other perspectives.

Two personal examples. I basically cut my teeth in the Battletech universe on MW3 "back in the day" and I thought it was great that I could jam damn near anything I wanted into a chassis, wherever I wanted to. I got to min/maxing at an early age. SRM boat ahoy - fear me, dirty clanner scum. I picked up MW4 and *HATED* it, since the game had the gall to tell me where I could and couldn't put weapons and equipment. Returned it for a refund (back when you could do that - didn't even have to be in the original shrink-wrap), and didn't touch it for years. Then tried it again, and... rather liked it! Go figure.

The other example. I got back from Afghanistan in the fall of '08, and Hurt Locker came out the following summer. I thought it was pretty-looking trash, and it completely blasted my mind when it won Best Picture. I could not (and honestly still cannot) get over how mind-bendingly unrealistic it was, and I could never suspend my sense of disbelief enough to appreciate those other aspects of the movie that were probably, in aggregate, what won that movie Best Picture. This is probably not strictly equivalent to fandom, but it's still that esoteric knowledge.

Hatchy, you either come from some kind of film background or you're an invested enough amateur that you have an appreciation for the little things. The things you write about camera perspective or lenses or what-have-you in your review of Black Panther speak to that. Those are things I certainly did not see, and would probably have to consciously look for when or if I see it again. Me - I just liked it. Didn't love it - my favourite movie of late is The Martian, and I f***ing loved The Martian - but I liked it. Similarly, you probably have your reasons why you didn't like JJ's Star Trek, but I liked it. Didn't love it, but I thought it was pretty good.

As Kereminde said, I typically don't go where I'm not wanted. But this is the bickering thread... so put up your dukes. ;)
 

Hatchy

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Microsoft isn't in the habit of selling off their game IP's even if it's a lucrative offer. If Jordan the father of Battletech and former Microsoft Creative Director who helped successfully launch the X-box couldn't buy them back with financing backers, the community won't be able to crowdfund that kind of money without guarantees that can't be given, including the fact the other half of the IP would also have to be acquired from Topps/Tornante. On the scale of possible to unlikely to impossible, that's a decimal point off from impossible. :(

Its approaching them with a concept that you can guarantee them some kind of return on with a minimum investment. OR you pay a fat fee for a title lease and they'll let you use their property.

So you have to be a really good salesperson or have a lot of capital.

*looks at the TMNT/Batman crossover miniseries sitting on the desk* Not sure where the hang-up on Battletech is...I can only make my guesses as to why it isn't as popular as it could be.
cJMWboC.png
 

CmdrDunsail

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Its approaching them with a concept that you can guarantee them some kind of return on with a minimum investment. OR you pay a fat fee for a title lease and they'll let you use their property.

So you have to be a really good salesperson or have a lot of capital.

*looks at the TMNT/Batman crossover miniseries sitting on the desk* Not sure where the hang-up on Battletech is...I can only make my guesses as to why it isn't as popular as it could be.
cJMWboC.png

Oh they'll happily sub-license if everything looks good. That's far different from selling the IP rights ownership which they generally don't do for any game IP. It's a matter of having a game IP warchest to protect future works (so they have prior art) in case of lawsuits and they'll hang on to IP rights to keep them out of the hands of competitors. And in the off chance an IP becomes popular again they can capitalize on that increased value. Such is the way of big business.
 

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Greetings Mechwarriors,

As always;

Please post topically towards discussion, and not AT others. Please do not respond to disrespect in kind exacerbating friction, but rather use the report feature and allow forum staff to de-escalate issues.

Some posts have experienced Jump Drive malfunctions to the Far Country to be used as nesting materials by the locals.

And if you haven't yet please review the forum user agreement and rules.

Thank you.
 

Havamal

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Wait are people bickering in the bickering thread? I am shocked!
There's bickering, and there's Bickering. If it looks like flamebating and flaming, no bueno. Nothing new here.
 

Hatchy

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Hatchy, you either come from some kind of film background

As Kereminde said, I typically don't go where I'm not wanted. But this is the bickering thread... so put up your dukes. ;)

Film school, animation school and then been working in the industry on-and-off in both live action, animation and FX for the last 20 years. With all my art, writing and photography on the side. My last 4 films that I did FX for are on Netflix currently. Got bored with that and now its all about comics again, I haven't been published in a wide circulation mag yet. Seen my name on the big and small screens, but not in a Marvel or DC book.

So yes, I look for very different things when it comes to my movies. To entertain me, you really have to know what you are doing. To impress me, you have to REALLY know what you are doing.

I do have to add that I expect certain things if somebody wants my money that I work hard for. Someone who is learning or 'noodling' around, I'm happy to cheer them on. If you want my money, expect 'Hatchy's Boot Camp'.
cJMWboC.png
 

Havamal

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Prussian Havoc

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please.gif
 

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There's bickering, and there's Bickering. If it looks like flamebating and flaming, no bueno. Nothing new here.

This is why I don't talk often about things I enjoy, inevitably My Fun Is Wrong. :)