• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Me_

Myself
82 Badges
Jan 14, 2011
9.666
12.619
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sengoku
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Victoria 2
With 1.07 the game’s plot system has been increased drastically. No longer do we have to stop plotting to fulfill an ambition and it’s now possible to be in two separate classes of “plots” (I mean plots and factions) at the same time.

As I was playing dukes of Saxony, I noticed one big thing still missing from the plot system: the ability to negatively influence relations between other characters. Sure there’s that one chancellor action, an odd event here and there and the excommunication, but it’s really very generic and limited. To sum it up for those “A Song of Ice and Fire” fans out there: there’s no way to play Petyr Baelish.

And so I introduce you to a new class of plots: framing.

Make X seem dishonourable
The goal of this plot is to lower relations between a subject and their liege. For common vassals and courtiers that’s about it. However, there an extra layer for this plot if used against a council member: it can be used to make it seem like they abuse their power. A chancellor may be taking bribes to not act on his mission, a marshal may be organizing local banditry, a treasurer may be stealing money, a spymaster may be feeding you false information, a court chaplain may be running a brothel. If successful this plot can lower the relations or even get the target fired from the council.
Of course the events associated with this plot would need to have a chance to fire on their own (i.e. without any plot) to make it hard for the player to tell if it’s real or not.

Make people believe X is a bastard
The goal of this plot is to make a legitimate child gain the bastard trait and be removed from the line of succession. For obvious reasons (to avoid abuse) it should be very hard to pull off as the father of the target, and the plot should be difficult anyway. If successful the target may be framed into being a bastard of a specific character (less likely) or a random servant.

Make X become branded as heretic
The goal of this plot is to make people believe that the target is a heretic, lowering his/her relations with most characters of the same faith, especially men of the cloth. If the target is already a member of a heresy, the plot would mark them as not really being a heretic.

Now for the big ones:

Frame X for murder
Exactly what it say, but there’s more to it. If you’re a member of a murder plot you may make it seem like the target is the culprit. If you manage to frame them for a murder of their relative, they may even get the “Kinslayer” trait. If you’re not in any murder plot the target would be framed for a murder of an unnamed knight/lady.

Cause X to start a Civil War
Really big one: make the leader of a faction start a war in the faction’s name. Very difficult, could be used to create the necessary circumstances to get the plot leader into dungeon or even executed/banished, could be used to create favourable circumstances for your own faction.

And a special one:

Seduce X
Not a usual type of plot (perhaps it could be an ambition instead). You cannot invite other members and you cannot be discovered. You can, however fail, which can have various results (e.g. liege throwing you into prison for trying to seduce his wife) and can succeed to well (may result in bastards). The goal is to make the target your lover.

The first three could result in the plot’s failure, which could at worst put you in jail. The latter two could even get you branded a traitor.

In order to facilitate a bigger array of plots, I also suggest a change to the number of plots going on. A character should be able to start a number of plots dependant upon the strength of their intrigue ability: 0-10 – 1 plot, 11-20 – 2 plots >20 – 3 plots.

The game will never be complete until we can play from random count all the way to emperor without ever starting a war.

Stay tuned for BHM suggestions 2: mercenaries, holy orders and heir control
 

Arizal

Field Marshal
98 Badges
Aug 9, 2006
5.302
4.761
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Sengoku
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Magicka
Those seems to be very nice ideas, but as I see it, there is one thing that is in common with many of your suggestions : the need of a third party. As of right now, a plot involves one attacked person, you and your backers. For most of those actions to work, you should be able to pick the second character (the person that bribed your councellor, the "real" father, the murdered person).

Those would be good additions to the gameplay. I don't understand however the civil war one? Is it to make him start is war sooner than he should have in order to make him fail? If yes, it would be good for the liege to have also the ability to challenge a faction ("I heard you wanted to lower crown authority, if you are not happy with my rule, just leave this room and I will crush you as if you were a bug"). It should be constrained, however, and some tyranny should come with those actions. It would also be good to be able to use different tactics. A faction shoudln't always end with a civil war if it is trigerred.
 

Me_

Myself
82 Badges
Jan 14, 2011
9.666
12.619
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sengoku
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Victoria 2
Those seems to be very nice ideas, but as I see it, there is one thing that is in common with many of your suggestions : the need of a third party. As of right now, a plot involves one attacked person, you and your backers. For most of those actions to work, you should be able to pick the second character (the person that bribed your councellor, the "real" father, the murdered person).

Those could be chosen by events (e.g. "Count X was at the right place and time - he would make a good "father"") and in the absence of those a random unnamed knight, lady, servant, etc. would be used. Just like now we have e.g. an unnamed chambermaid smothering a child in child assassination plot.

Is it to make him start is war sooner than he should have in order to make him fail?

Yes, only it could have other uses - weakinig your liege before your own faction war, weakening a faction leader before your claim war, leading to the inprisonment of faction leader etc.

If yes, it would be good for the liege to have also the ability to challenge a faction ("I heard you wanted to lower crown authority, if you are not happy with my rule, just leave this room and I will crush you as if you were a bug"). It should be constrained, however, and some tyranny should come with those actions. It would also be good to be able to use different tactics. A faction shoudln't always end with a civil war if it is trigerred.

Nobody says the liege couldn't use such a plot. Of course it would need to be quite difficult and risky to pull off - a liege would risk losing relations with all of his/hers vassals, while a vassal using this plot on another one would risk being considered a traitor.