The Poland-Lithuania-Masovian alliance has been quiet of late. They must have rebuilt their strength to have a rematch with the Teutonic Knights. Time for von "Flattenburg" to demonstrate what he does to armies and towns alike.
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The last Grand Master had better be good. I haven't ever played as the Teutons so i don't know what his stats are like.
CatKnight said:
Surprisingly ominous, considering what's going to happen. Good update though. After that last update, I'd forgotten what peace could be like. I hope it lasts until the next generation is ready for the meat grinder.
Chief Ragusa said:
IIRC, that alliance is still at war with the Knights/Montenegro/Pommerania (or Mecklenberg- it's easy to confuse the German minors), so I don't think Lithuania will make the first move. von Plattenberg still needs time to let the Teuton preteen population grow up a little, and I doubt he'll be concerned with his neighbors to the East while he faces a conglomeration of hostile Catholic minors to the West and South. At this point, a clever Teuton would try using Muscovy as a counter to possible Lithuanian aggresion while focusing on placating both the Empire and the Pope.
dublish said:
As per the last update, he's already recruited all the 10 year olds into the army. They're already veterans. Moscow is already too big for Teuton comfort. Plettenberg is a Livonian, after all. He's gpoing to have more northerly and Lithuanian concerns than your average Grandmaster. Liberating Pskov is likely to be his every third sentence and freeing Novgorod would play well with the Hanse merchants of Danzig. Then reducing the three countries Lithuania et all to become Teuton vassals would provide extra revenue and manpower for the struggles ahead.
Well then.... that was certainly a bit of a cliffhanger. Have you been hanging with Storey again, Cat? 
It will be interesting, to say the least, to see how the Order moves forward into a world in which it still has it's greatest rivals still an eager menace and it's traditional supporters, i.e the German Princes and the Holy See, not all that pleasently diposed toward the Knights of the Baltic coast. And that's not even mentioning the ill feelings that are going to be running rampant within the boundries of the Order for the time being.
All in all... the future while looking bright for the Brethern, is by no means at all very rosey. Which, of course, makes all the better for we readAARs, eh?
Outstanding work, Cat.
It will be interesting, to say the least, to see how the Order moves forward into a world in which it still has it's greatest rivals still an eager menace and it's traditional supporters, i.e the German Princes and the Holy See, not all that pleasently diposed toward the Knights of the Baltic coast. And that's not even mentioning the ill feelings that are going to be running rampant within the boundries of the Order for the time being.
All in all... the future while looking bright for the Brethern, is by no means at all very rosey. Which, of course, makes all the better for we readAARs, eh?
Outstanding work, Cat.
Chief Ragusa said:
Chief Ragusa said:
Technically, von Plettenberg is a Baltic German. While it's true that he led the Livonian Order against Russia during his tenure as Grandmaster and even secured an alliance with Lithuania for support, it's important to remember that he's now Grandmaster of the Teutons, and will be forced to consider other interests besides Livonian ones.
I doubt pleasing the Hanseatic League is much of a concern for anyone at this point. IIRC, Holland should be taking over a good deal of the Hanseatic trade at this point, and with support from the cities of the League in Prussia/Livonia. Besides, few of CatKnight's previous Grandmaster's have had much concern for Baltic trade in general.
Vassalizing Lithuania, Poland, and Masovia would be excellent moves in terms of gameplay, but not necessarily for roleplay. CatKnight's Teutonic Order has become quite different from the originals who made war against Poland every summer. As Draco Rexus points out, the Teutons no longer have much support in Germany or Rome. They won't be too keen on taking on countries with equal or greater strength.
I in 8 of the Teutons subjects is Polish. You are orrect in sayingthat Catkight's Order has lost much of the support it once enjoyed in Germany and that's despite the many RMs he's made in the aftermath of the war. many of the new knights will be eager to gain fame and fortune fighting the Order's traditional foes. They don't even have to declare war, just leave their own alliance and join the Knights' alliance.
The Order needs additional resources, as the successful vassilisation of Lithuania et al would bring, but the Hanse offer a bit of mutual opportunity. The order now has two trading centres. There's a chance if they can bring Novgorod within the Order's boundaries that the Moscow CoT will close and move back to Novgorod (none in game, this represents a roleplay in which the Hanse and Order act in concert for mutual benefit). Pskov is Catholic and must be protected and provides a CB against Muscow.
The Order needs additional resources, as the successful vassilisation of Lithuania et al would bring, but the Hanse offer a bit of mutual opportunity. The order now has two trading centres. There's a chance if they can bring Novgorod within the Order's boundaries that the Moscow CoT will close and move back to Novgorod (none in game, this represents a roleplay in which the Hanse and Order act in concert for mutual benefit). Pskov is Catholic and must be protected and provides a CB against Muscow.
A number of good points in the above post, and I only disagree with this one:
Pskov may be Catholic, but the Teutons have been growing closer to Muscovy since the war with the Pope and Empire began. A war over Pskov requires the Order to act like a militant Catholic Order that acts in the general interests of Catholicism. CatKnight's Teutons no longer meet that requirement, so I think a war with Muscovy in the forseeable future is unlikely.
That said, I thought war with the Pope and Bohemia simultaneously was rather unlikely... I wish CatKnight would join this discussion.
Chief Ragusa said:
Pskov may be Catholic, but the Teutons have been growing closer to Muscovy since the war with the Pope and Empire began. A war over Pskov requires the Order to act like a militant Catholic Order that acts in the general interests of Catholicism. CatKnight's Teutons no longer meet that requirement, so I think a war with Muscovy in the forseeable future is unlikely.
That said, I thought war with the Pope and Bohemia simultaneously was rather unlikely... I wish CatKnight would join this discussion.
Actually I'm enjoying listening to everyone's thoughts on the matter.
I certainly didn't expect to be fighting the Papacy and Bohemia at the same time. The Bohemian AI apparently decided he wanted Oppeln/Lausitz/Leignitz back. (I expect he has cores on all of them.)
I have to read up more on von Plettenberg before I can really role-play him. The game treats him as fairly average (Decent Leader, 6 Mil 5 Adm/Dip) but everything I've found credits von Plattenberg as being one of the great Livonian masters.
First, he has something very important (potentially) planned as he takes office. I don't want to spoil the surprise, but it goes with the idea of forging a new identity and hopefully bringing the Livonians and Teutons closer together.
Second, von Plettenberg's not a fool. The Knights need a short breather: Badboy is still in the tarnished range. War exhaustion (and therefore revolt risk) are still there. I want at least one of those loans dealt with. Though manpower in game is...okay, since in game I've reported his predecessor had to tap in to the early/preteens to finish his war, von Plattenberg would probably like to give them a little time to grow up.
Now...foreign policy: I'm not sure. My initial take on von Plettenberg is anti-Muscovite, similar to Ragusa's reasoning. Everyone in the Order who trained and cared for him spent their lives telling him the Rus are the enemy. That has to be a powerful force. The "warming" of Muscovite relations means now they're around -150 instead of -200 ... we are by no means friendly.
Then again...dublish is right: This version of the Order is no longer a Catholic minion looking to expand their master's faith. Indeed, a small minority would see any attempt to fight Muscovy as bowing to Rome.
Von Plettenberg strikes me as a religious man with a streak of pragmatism. He fought Russia to a standstill ... but then he went Lutheran ... however, unlike Albrecht, he refused to secularize the Order. I expect he endorsed von Tiefen's idea of what a Catholic should be (obedient in spiritual matters, not otherwise) or he wouldn't have made it through the war with his prestige intact. That suggests he won't go off half-cocked ... but when other states impose this version of "State Catholicism", doubting the Church and going to older sources, they almost invariably turn fundamentalist and hard-line.
Looking west, I don't think these Teutons are that worried about the Empire, at least right now. If Saxony, Brandenburg or Bohemia want to take another poke, let them. Otherwise let them fight amongst themselves.
The Hanseatic League, which is weakening but still viable, might be another story. It helps explain Teuton interest in the Baltic Coast, especially with Danzig as their largest city. Novgorod is a member of the League, and Muscovy didn't treat the League well (via event) when they first took over.
Poland and Lithuania...are interesting. On the one hand, I don't see the Knights as being too interested in them - they have their territory back.
On the other hand, clearly Lithuania is their greatest enemy. I see the current situation much like the US/USSR Cold War: We're not fighting you right now, but we expect sooner or later it'll happen and must be ready. The fact that 12% of the populace is Polish wouldn't worry anyone much: After all, von Erlichshausen attacked with over half the populace against him.
Incidentally, if there is a war....it'll be incredibly ugly. Pommerania on their side is a major blow to the balance of power. Mecklenburg would need to move FAST to keep them busy. Bavaria would be useless. Sweden doesn't worry me. It'd be a knock-down drag out land war at that point.
Poland, Lithuania, lessee...Sweden is still in it, and Pommerania are still fighting the Knights, Montenegro, and now Irish Munster. This is what...10-12 years now? At the end of last session I even turned the fog of war off long enough to make sure they weren't in one of those situations where the AI can't declare peace .... Nope, they just really don't like each other.
I expect von Plattenburg's getting all sorts of ideas how to proceed. As I said, if I had to guess....rest and reorganize for a bit, then either Muscowy or Lithuania, unless Saxony, Bohemia or Brandenburg want a rematch first.
Definitely feel free to respond to this or each other. You might help von Plettenberg make up his mind.
I certainly didn't expect to be fighting the Papacy and Bohemia at the same time. The Bohemian AI apparently decided he wanted Oppeln/Lausitz/Leignitz back. (I expect he has cores on all of them.)
I have to read up more on von Plettenberg before I can really role-play him. The game treats him as fairly average (Decent Leader, 6 Mil 5 Adm/Dip) but everything I've found credits von Plattenberg as being one of the great Livonian masters.
First, he has something very important (potentially) planned as he takes office. I don't want to spoil the surprise, but it goes with the idea of forging a new identity and hopefully bringing the Livonians and Teutons closer together.
Second, von Plettenberg's not a fool. The Knights need a short breather: Badboy is still in the tarnished range. War exhaustion (and therefore revolt risk) are still there. I want at least one of those loans dealt with. Though manpower in game is...okay, since in game I've reported his predecessor had to tap in to the early/preteens to finish his war, von Plattenberg would probably like to give them a little time to grow up.
Now...foreign policy: I'm not sure. My initial take on von Plettenberg is anti-Muscovite, similar to Ragusa's reasoning. Everyone in the Order who trained and cared for him spent their lives telling him the Rus are the enemy. That has to be a powerful force. The "warming" of Muscovite relations means now they're around -150 instead of -200 ... we are by no means friendly.
Then again...dublish is right: This version of the Order is no longer a Catholic minion looking to expand their master's faith. Indeed, a small minority would see any attempt to fight Muscovy as bowing to Rome.
Von Plettenberg strikes me as a religious man with a streak of pragmatism. He fought Russia to a standstill ... but then he went Lutheran ... however, unlike Albrecht, he refused to secularize the Order. I expect he endorsed von Tiefen's idea of what a Catholic should be (obedient in spiritual matters, not otherwise) or he wouldn't have made it through the war with his prestige intact. That suggests he won't go off half-cocked ... but when other states impose this version of "State Catholicism", doubting the Church and going to older sources, they almost invariably turn fundamentalist and hard-line.
Looking west, I don't think these Teutons are that worried about the Empire, at least right now. If Saxony, Brandenburg or Bohemia want to take another poke, let them. Otherwise let them fight amongst themselves.
The Hanseatic League, which is weakening but still viable, might be another story. It helps explain Teuton interest in the Baltic Coast, especially with Danzig as their largest city. Novgorod is a member of the League, and Muscovy didn't treat the League well (via event) when they first took over.
Poland and Lithuania...are interesting. On the one hand, I don't see the Knights as being too interested in them - they have their territory back.
On the other hand, clearly Lithuania is their greatest enemy. I see the current situation much like the US/USSR Cold War: We're not fighting you right now, but we expect sooner or later it'll happen and must be ready. The fact that 12% of the populace is Polish wouldn't worry anyone much: After all, von Erlichshausen attacked with over half the populace against him.
Incidentally, if there is a war....it'll be incredibly ugly. Pommerania on their side is a major blow to the balance of power. Mecklenburg would need to move FAST to keep them busy. Bavaria would be useless. Sweden doesn't worry me. It'd be a knock-down drag out land war at that point.
Poland, Lithuania, lessee...Sweden is still in it, and Pommerania are still fighting the Knights, Montenegro, and now Irish Munster. This is what...10-12 years now? At the end of last session I even turned the fog of war off long enough to make sure they weren't in one of those situations where the AI can't declare peace .... Nope, they just really don't like each other.
I expect von Plattenburg's getting all sorts of ideas how to proceed. As I said, if I had to guess....rest and reorganize for a bit, then either Muscowy or Lithuania, unless Saxony, Bohemia or Brandenburg want a rematch first.
Definitely feel free to respond to this or each other. You might help von Plettenberg make up his mind.
I look upon the Teutonic Order as thoroughly disenchanted with the Empire. They had to fight Emperor and Pope and damn near broke themselves doing it. They need to have command of greater resources both economic and manpower.
The new volunteers into Knightly ranks think that it's just a temporary spat between two alliances honouring each other over a fight for Neumark. They think they're going to fight for the traditional Order against the Poles and Muscovites. First they are sent against the Lithuanians et al. Then they will be set against Muscovy, funding, badboy and war exhaustion permitting.
There are more interested parties than just the Komturs to consider, important though they are. The merchants are stengthened with the addition of Riga and the Polish nobles in the south can now link up with like-minded Balt nobles in the north.
Poland had long pressured the Kinghts into being the Grand Duchy of Prussia, vassals of Poland. The idea that they could be a separate Grand Duchy of Prussia is going to appeal to a minority of Knights wherein the Grandmaster is also Grand Duke of Prussia. Alongside the Conclave of the Brothers are those of the nobilityand the Hanse. All three contribute to the policy followed in the Grand Duchy.
The new volunteers into Knightly ranks think that it's just a temporary spat between two alliances honouring each other over a fight for Neumark. They think they're going to fight for the traditional Order against the Poles and Muscovites. First they are sent against the Lithuanians et al. Then they will be set against Muscovy, funding, badboy and war exhaustion permitting.
There are more interested parties than just the Komturs to consider, important though they are. The merchants are stengthened with the addition of Riga and the Polish nobles in the south can now link up with like-minded Balt nobles in the north.
Poland had long pressured the Kinghts into being the Grand Duchy of Prussia, vassals of Poland. The idea that they could be a separate Grand Duchy of Prussia is going to appeal to a minority of Knights wherein the Grandmaster is also Grand Duke of Prussia. Alongside the Conclave of the Brothers are those of the nobilityand the Hanse. All three contribute to the policy followed in the Grand Duchy.
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CatKnight said:
Hmmm...
If you attack Muscovy, you'll end up with a rather exposed salient up around Pskov and Novgorod, and it will be difficult to hold in future wars against either Muscovy or Lithuania. That's assuming you win, which isn't a given since you'll undoubtedly face horrible losses from attrition and battles at the end of long supply lines far from your heartland. Eastward expansion for the sake of expansion probably isn't the best idea right now.
If von Plattenberg revives the old Blue faction, he'll have to go all out for it. Your naval tech is rather low at this point, and control of the Baltic trade requires a navy capable of competing with Sweden and Denmark. That's something of a pipe dream right now, and you gave up your claims on Gotland anyway IIRC.
So, assuming no new wars start up and von Plattenberg waits a few years (and he's got plenty), I'd go after Lithuania first. The Hochmeister won't be seen as bowing to Rome, and the die-hards of the old Order get to fight the perennial enemy. While there may be no real reason to fight Poland Lithuania if you have your territory back, you'll need to make it clear to them that they can't beat you. Vassalizing at least both Poland and Masovia should do that nicely. Again, I don't think the Teutons at this point will be interested in unchecked territorial expansion to the East, so taking provinces from Lithuania doesn't make much sense (and will only give them a reason to attack you continuously). You could try drawing some of Lithuania's neighbors in on your side to take some of their territory and keep them neutered for a while, but your relations with Muscovy are a lot lower than I anticipated...
Pommerania and Sweden make the Lithuanian alliance as powerful as it was before the Teutons got their land back. Both Lithuania and Poland have a useful leader. Plettenberg may not have the luxury of time. The Knights have just lost a war, technically. That alliance is going to come looking for the Order.
I'd be tempted to try to outseige Pommerania and annex the state just to gain its army and navy. It can always be re-released later. The Order does not exactly care about its relations with other Catholics, just now. Its navy is just about large enough to deal with Sweden's and you'll have assistance from the Knights (just how good are those relations, would they actually invite you into their alliance?) and Munster (Hermann's truly frightening).
I'm not suggesting they take land from Lithuania. In Russia take enough to reform the states of Pskov and Novgorod. Perhaps, lightening will strike twice and Novgorod will go Catholic before release.
I'd be tempted to try to outseige Pommerania and annex the state just to gain its army and navy. It can always be re-released later. The Order does not exactly care about its relations with other Catholics, just now. Its navy is just about large enough to deal with Sweden's and you'll have assistance from the Knights (just how good are those relations, would they actually invite you into their alliance?) and Munster (Hermann's truly frightening).
I'm not suggesting they take land from Lithuania. In Russia take enough to reform the states of Pskov and Novgorod. Perhaps, lightening will strike twice and Novgorod will go Catholic before release.
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Chief Ragusa said:
I'd be surprised if the Knights came looking for the Order. From a roleplaying perspective, it makes little sense for the Knights to approach a state that nearly broke its back fighting the Pope and the Empire. Of course, this is the AI we're talking about... but I still don't expect it to happen. If von Plettenberg wants war with the Lithuanian alliance, I think he'll get to choose when it happens.
Also from a roleplaying perspective, annexing Pommerania would be a Very Bad Thing, as it can only anger the Empire and its constituent states. CatKnight's confidence aside, I doubt von Plettenberg would want a war with both the Lithuanian alliance and his Western neighbors at the same time. As CatKnight says, Sweden won't be much of a threat as long as they cannot put a large land force ashore, but I bet their navy is operating at a higher tech level than the Teutons. I also don't expect much help from the Knights. I don't know where they are at the moment, but I bet it's not Northern Europe.
If the Teutons can deal with the logistical problems of waging war for Pskov and/or Novgorod, I wouldn't object to war with Muscovy. I wouldn't count on Novgorod going Catholic though, and I doubt the Teutons would care- von Plettenberg may hate the Rus, but winning converts for a corrupt Papacy can't be very high on his to-do list. Releasing Pskov and Novgorod could solve a lot of problems, but I'd hate to see the Order repeat it's performance from the first Beyond Tannenberg AAR. I recommend ditching them as soon as they try drawing you into wars further East, especially if Lithuania remains a threat.
Well, here are my neighbors and important notes entering von Plettenberg's run:
Sweden: +59 relations, 20% Inflation, 19 Income (hereafter 59/20/19)
In alliance/war with Lithuania, Poland, Pommern vs Knights, Montenegro, Munster (hereafter 'The War')
Denmark: -191/11/27
In alliance with Hanover until 3/1502
Pommern: +107/20/11
In 'The War'. RM
Mecklenberg: +125/18/8, CoT
In alliance with Teutons, Bavaria until 7/1503. RM
Saxony: -195/12/17
Truce til 8/1498. Alliance w Scotland, Genoa, Lorraine, Cologne til 7/1503
Austria: -191/19/17
Vassal of Hungary. Alliance w same until 11/1505
Bohemia: -200/17/12
Truce til 8/1498. PCB vs TO. Hussite Religion
Poland: -199/19/12
Vassal of Lithuania. In 'The War'. PCB vs TO
Lithuania: -200/20/24
In 'The War', PCB vs TO
Muscowy: -179/9/32
I have PCB. Orthodox religion
Brandenburg: -200/17/5
I have PCB. Alliance w Papacy, Tuscany, Baden, Magdeburg til 2/1499
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My badboy is around 16 (Tarnished). War exhaustion is about 5 or 6. Inflation is 30.6% (Yeah, I know. Minting is bad. Getting trounced in wars is worse.) Income is 21.2 g
Sweden: +59 relations, 20% Inflation, 19 Income (hereafter 59/20/19)
In alliance/war with Lithuania, Poland, Pommern vs Knights, Montenegro, Munster (hereafter 'The War')
Denmark: -191/11/27
In alliance with Hanover until 3/1502
Pommern: +107/20/11
In 'The War'. RM
Mecklenberg: +125/18/8, CoT
In alliance with Teutons, Bavaria until 7/1503. RM
Saxony: -195/12/17
Truce til 8/1498. Alliance w Scotland, Genoa, Lorraine, Cologne til 7/1503
Austria: -191/19/17
Vassal of Hungary. Alliance w same until 11/1505
Bohemia: -200/17/12
Truce til 8/1498. PCB vs TO. Hussite Religion
Poland: -199/19/12
Vassal of Lithuania. In 'The War'. PCB vs TO
Lithuania: -200/20/24
In 'The War', PCB vs TO
Muscowy: -179/9/32
I have PCB. Orthodox religion
Brandenburg: -200/17/5
I have PCB. Alliance w Papacy, Tuscany, Baden, Magdeburg til 2/1499
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My badboy is around 16 (Tarnished). War exhaustion is about 5 or 6. Inflation is 30.6% (Yeah, I know. Minting is bad. Getting trounced in wars is worse.) Income is 21.2 g
From Catknight's list, Masovia is missing. Who annexed them? Poland or Lithuania? Poland being vassals of Lithuania makes it two wars to vassilise them. First turn Lithuania , bring them into your alliance and DoW Poland. There's a case not to invite Mecklenberg and Bavaria to joim in the northern bunfight.
Pommerania has been asked nicley to become part of the Order's lands. It refused. Even if it has lots of troops and ships, its good relations suggest it will agree to union by military means. Most ofthe Empire seems to hate the Order, already.
Sweden's navy is not likely to be much more advanced than the Teutons and about the same size or smaller. If effort was put in to diplomatic advances before war was declared, they might like the Order to dishonmour their alliance and promptly accept a part in the Order's alliance.
The point about the Knights of the Hospital is well made. The two Orders clearly differ in their apporach to the authority of Rome in temporal matters. They are a useful diversion of Lithuanian troops to the southern battlefield and it is for that reason alone I would push for an alliance. For their betrayal of a fellow Order, they will pay.
Pskov is right on the border. Novgorod is just on the border of what once was the state of Pskov. Pskov was their vassal when the Muscovites took it. Novgorod was a Hanse city and one that inflicted a defeat upon the Order far worse than Tannenberg. It's sort of a poetic justice that Novgorod would owe its continued existence to the Order. The Ordrer is not doing this war out of any religious sentiment, though a reference to same religion will win over those who still feel the Order should be a militant Catholic Order.
Converts are won and souls saved for God, not the papacy.
Pommerania has been asked nicley to become part of the Order's lands. It refused. Even if it has lots of troops and ships, its good relations suggest it will agree to union by military means. Most ofthe Empire seems to hate the Order, already.
Sweden's navy is not likely to be much more advanced than the Teutons and about the same size or smaller. If effort was put in to diplomatic advances before war was declared, they might like the Order to dishonmour their alliance and promptly accept a part in the Order's alliance.
The point about the Knights of the Hospital is well made. The two Orders clearly differ in their apporach to the authority of Rome in temporal matters. They are a useful diversion of Lithuanian troops to the southern battlefield and it is for that reason alone I would push for an alliance. For their betrayal of a fellow Order, they will pay.
Pskov is right on the border. Novgorod is just on the border of what once was the state of Pskov. Pskov was their vassal when the Muscovites took it. Novgorod was a Hanse city and one that inflicted a defeat upon the Order far worse than Tannenberg. It's sort of a poetic justice that Novgorod would owe its continued existence to the Order. The Ordrer is not doing this war out of any religious sentiment, though a reference to same religion will win over those who still feel the Order should be a militant Catholic Order.
Converts are won and souls saved for God, not the papacy.
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SunZyl: I did get von Plettenberg as a leader: Surprised the heck out of me! He's pretty good too. As a monarch he's 6 Military/5 Adm, Dip - fair. I think the game underestimates him.
WATK assumes Freidrich of Saxony is elected (as per history), then Albrecht von Hohzenhollern in 1510. If you haven't become Prussia by 1525 (when Albrecht defected), then WATK appears to assume the Livonian Order's leadership takes over. I edited von Plettenberg in as the current monarch. Whether this eliminates Albrecht from the equation...unknown: He might just hang out until 1535 THEN try to take over the Knights.
Chief Ragusa: Lithuania annexed Masovia awhile back.
J. Passepartout: As I said, von Plattenberg's decent, especially as a general.
dublish: The last line should be ominous. There's no real guarantee we're secularizing the Order, so that's now what I meant when I said von Plettenberg was the last Teutonic GM.
Draco Rexus: As always, thanks! I think the Order might be at least trying to straighten out internally. Having one grandmaster for 38 years might do wonders. Externally...well, that IS a mess.
Fulcrumvale:
stnylan: Stability is good. The Knights need all the stability they can get right now.
General: : passing over some EXCELLENT analysis that's given me ALOT to think about: I would be surprised if Lithuania did anything until the war's over. That said...when the war's over, they might come knocking. When I say I'm not worried about Sweden, it's because so long as I just defend my shores, I appear to win naval battles against Sweden. Then again, the last two times we fought Denmark was already involved. Regarding the Knights Hospitaller - all they have is Rhodes, so I don't see us fighting. Actually as I wrote last time, the Ottoman Empire's finally taking off and dealt Hungary a decisive blow. I'm rather hopeful they'll chew on the Knights and Lithuania for me.
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This next post is dedicated to Archaalen and Ragusa. You'll see why.
WATK assumes Freidrich of Saxony is elected (as per history), then Albrecht von Hohzenhollern in 1510. If you haven't become Prussia by 1525 (when Albrecht defected), then WATK appears to assume the Livonian Order's leadership takes over. I edited von Plettenberg in as the current monarch. Whether this eliminates Albrecht from the equation...unknown: He might just hang out until 1535 THEN try to take over the Knights.
Chief Ragusa: Lithuania annexed Masovia awhile back.
J. Passepartout: As I said, von Plattenberg's decent, especially as a general.
dublish: The last line should be ominous. There's no real guarantee we're secularizing the Order, so that's now what I meant when I said von Plettenberg was the last Teutonic GM.
Draco Rexus: As always, thanks! I think the Order might be at least trying to straighten out internally. Having one grandmaster for 38 years might do wonders. Externally...well, that IS a mess.
Fulcrumvale:
stnylan: Stability is good. The Knights need all the stability they can get right now.
General: : passing over some EXCELLENT analysis that's given me ALOT to think about: I would be surprised if Lithuania did anything until the war's over. That said...when the war's over, they might come knocking. When I say I'm not worried about Sweden, it's because so long as I just defend my shores, I appear to win naval battles against Sweden. Then again, the last two times we fought Denmark was already involved. Regarding the Knights Hospitaller - all they have is Rhodes, so I don't see us fighting. Actually as I wrote last time, the Ottoman Empire's finally taking off and dealt Hungary a decisive blow. I'm rather hopeful they'll chew on the Knights and Lithuania for me.
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This next post is dedicated to Archaalen and Ragusa. You'll see why.
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-= Interlude 2 =-
Marienburg Castle
August 28, 1497
If it chose, the cathedral at Marienburg Castle could be cold even in the middle of August. Grey stone walls and floor leeched any heat out of the air, especially now in the hours before dawn. No starlight could pierce the narrow stained glass windows some twenty or thirty feet up, little more than slots. Therefore darkness reigned in the sanctuary, less a single candle on the altar.
Normally said candle would have many friends, brethren to tend them, and the monastric brothers of the Teutonic Knights would filter in every three hours to offer prayers and song to their Savior. Tonight the candle only had one retainer, a burly man in his late forties dressed only in a coarse robe belted at the waist. This man knelt, hands clapsed in supplication and occasionally opened his eyes to follow the flickering light to a statue of his Savior on the Cross, looking down at him with a mixture of agony and compassion. I died for you, those eyes said. Do not fail me.
The kneeling man was, of course, Rittermeister Wolter von Plettenberg, and this was his Vigil. In just a few hours he would take the last vows of his life, those making him Grand Master of the Teutonic Order.
Von Plettenberg long since exhausted his respectable repetoire of prayers, and now thought of what he'd do with his new found rank. Like most of his predecessors he considered the Knights his personal charge, an awesome responsibility since even in more peaceful days the Teutonic Order found itself more or less isolated here along the Baltic. He feared failure. He'd known men, good men, excellent soldiers, who'd completely disintegrated at the first scent of command. He imagined a similar rift must exist between generals and political leadership.
If you fear failure, then you will fail, he thought grimly and closed his eyes. "The Lord is my Shepherd." he murmured. "I shall not want. I really have to think about liberating Pskov."
Occasionally through the long night he'd have waking dreams. Everyone has them: Your mind wanders, and by the time you call it back to the present sometimes it'd gone very far indeed. Not a few hours ago he'd have sworn he was on Osel Island, soon after retaking the fortress. He'd stood on the ramparts and stared down the steep cliffs at the Baltic far below, cold blue with a hint of mist.
As von Plettenberg prayed, his mind wandered once again. Now he sat on horseback in the plains near Konigsberg, only a few leagues away. A grey, cold day with an unpleasant chill. Behind him another fifteen or twenty knights, Livonians and Teutons both, their tabards torn, shields and swords bloody. They looked defeated, tired, frightened. What happened? Where was everyone?
Dead, he thought. You failed them.
"Orders, Hochmeister?" asked a knight nervously.
Von Plettenberg shivered. There was nowhere to go. They'd already taken Konigsberg, Marienburg, Danzig, the other cities. This was as good a place for a final stand as any. "We stay."
"Good," another knight answered. He drew his sword and pointed.
Across the field came their enemies. The creature on the far left was white with six hundred sixty-six spots on its coat. It bore a metallic device on its shoulder that fired projectiles and wore a crown. Next to it stood its reddish-brown companion, the color of dried blood. Jagged points like lances covered its body like some sort of grotesque spiked armor. The third did wear armor, obsidian scales nearly the size of shields. Dragon scales, von Plettenberg reasoned. On the far right walked a pale creature, almost green like a body left exposed for too long. This one seemed almost skeletal in appearance.
Behind him horses screamed. Knights screamed too, but there was nothing for it. Their world had come to an end, and if it was von Plettenburg's fault - so be it. No choices remained, and so doubt evaporated. He drew his sword and screamed over the incessant mooing: "TO ARMS! CHARGE!"
The door to the cathedral slammed open. Four men in full plate armor surged in, two holding lanterns high as their companions drew swords and looked around wildly.
Von Plettenberg whirled and leapt to his feet. "What are you doing?" he demanded.
One of the swordbearers knelt. "I apologize, my lord. We heard you cry out 'To Arms' and thought you might be in trouble."
The Livonian folded his arms. "As you can see, I'm well. I'm working on liberating Pskov."
"Yes, my lord, but..." The swordsman paused. Something in his lord's glare forbade questions. "Yes, my lord." He glanced around one last time, stood, bowed and walked out with his companions.
Von Plettenberg waited until they left, then, shaking, sat down.
Did it mean anything if you had a vision of the Four Bovine of the Apocowlypse?
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