beware of the Dutch Republic

[smellymummy]

if anyone is playing netherlands and reaches the event that asks you to reform the government..

dutch republic is essentially a republic, that allows royal marriages and with a ruler that rules for life. now if you were a monarchy prior to the event, this might seem fine, seeing how the dutch republic government gets +33% naval limit and +10% to trade. so no different than your last government type asides from the bonuses

however if you were a republic prior to the event, with the elections and the ability to keep a ruler in office and make him a mega 6-6-6 ruler, realize that this ability is going to be gone forever if you pick dutch republic - you can not change out of dutch republic to any other form. so, imo the extra 33% naval limits wasn't worth it for me seeing how i was already getting netherlands navy bonus and the navy ideas. as for the trade bonus, it's pretty much equal to the trade efficiency given by the admin republic i was in, so not much of a gain asides from being able to build another million frigates

of course if you time it right, you can get a somewhat young 6-6-6 ruler in time to rule the dutch republic around 1580ish (when the event fires), but i guess you really ought to know about the event to plan for it

my netherlands is now going to be ruled by random incompetent wannabe monarch stadtholders which i can't even improve over their lives. oh how i wish i knew this beforehand

 

[AhoyDeerrr]

How exactly do you get this special government time?

 

[smellymummy]

the event triggers shortly after 1580

 

[Nirmara]

+33% naval limit is great, you always need more light ships to defend your tradings interests, and considering the Dutch already get bonus for trade...

 

[Tildeman]

Netherlands can have a forclimit of over 400 ship pretty early on.

 

[The Blood Eagle]

I would counter by saying that having a low stat ruler in this game isn't the devastating blow it was in the previous one.

 

[unmerged(475475)]

Whats the best route to bring my colonial trade to the Netherlands? Going through Bordeux or London?

 

[masteriw]

I would counter by saying that having a low stat ruler in this game isn't the devastating blow it was in the previous one.

Isn't it worse now, since you get less MP?

 

[Calahir]

dutch republic is essentially a republic, that allows royal marriages and with a ruler that rules for life.

If it works that way, it should be implemented in PLC. Can't stand those silly noble republics with elections every 8 years instead of lifetime rulers.

 

[shakeled1]

Isn't it worse now, since you get less MP?

It matters more in terms of your ability to tech and thus get national ideas and stuff. It matters less in terms of actual country efficiency (the infamy reduction, moral boost, build costs, etc.)

 

[Ruanek]

I would counter by saying that having a low stat ruler in this game isn't the devastating blow it was in the previous one.

I disagree with that. Because monarch stats affect monarch points, having a low stat ruler is much, much worse than it was in EU3.

 

[smellymummy]

no the problem is that for 140 years of admin republic, forming the netherlands and just being able to craft a ruler with great stats at the expense of higher stability cost, and then you pick the dutch republic, the obvious choice in the event, and then you're stuck with a monarchy-republic. if i had of known, i would of stayed with the republic (second choice of the event)

yeah the +33% naval force limit is nice, though you already can get +200% with netherland ideas and naval ideas. that extra 33% is just going to be overkill, so i'd rather be able to grow a 6-6-6 ruler instead of those extra light ships

 

[unmerged(475475)]

no the problem is that for 140 years of admin republic, forming the netherlands and just being able to craft a ruler with great stats at the expense of higher stability cost, and then you pick the dutch republic, the obvious choice in the event, and then you're stuck with a monarchy-republic. if i had of known, i would of stayed with the republic (second choice of the event)

yeah the +33% naval force limit is nice, though you already can get +200% with netherland ideas and naval ideas. that extra 33% is just going to be overkill, so i'd rather be able to grow a 6-6-6 ruler instead of those extra light ships

How do you grow a 6-6-6 ruler without running out of Republican Tradition and the monarchists rising up to restore despotism?

 

[aitaituo]

So, does the Dutch Republic (and other for life republics) always get a ruler that's 4 in one stat and 1 in the other two?

 

[smellymummy]

How do you grow a 6-6-6 ruler without running out of Republican Tradition and the monarchists rising up to restore despotism?

50 tradition out of 100 to get to 6-6-6, not counting all those events where your son is discredited, but those are random anyway. pick the right elected ruler for the job though. wait until you get a young one, a 30 years old elected ruler seems to have been the youngest i've seen yet. pick him young so that way the ruler actually lives through with the good stats. the only initial penalty for keeping him in office is higher stab cost and a reduced revolt risk benefit

when you reach repub tradition that is in the red, i think it's under 40 or 30, it's time for election to go as normal so tradition can slowly grow again, as their seems to be a slew of stab hit events when you get low tradition. however the amount of admin monarch points you get can offset the stability especially if you don't invest into any admin ideas

 

[Kingepyon]

So, does the Dutch Republic (and other for life republics) always get a ruler that's 4 in one stat and 1 in the other two?

No, the Dutch Republic rulers stats are fairly random. I was getting 5-5-2, and 3-5-4 (the 2 that I remember) from it.

 

[aitaituo]

As I pointed out in another thread, the optimal number of monarch points in a republic is with a noble republic going on a 4 consecutive terms/1 consecutive turn rotation, yielding at most a 6/4/4 ruler. No matter what, a 6/5/5 or 6/6/6 republic leader will require additional one term rulers or you'll revert to a monarchy and that means less overall monarch points.

The strength of republic is not the monarch points in total (monarchies are simply statistically superior even if you don't try to quickly kill off bad heirs and rulers). The advantages are that you suffer less stability losses from succesion and you get to guarantee you're getting a decent amount of the monarch point you need the most of at any particular time. It's a tradeoff between low risk low reward and high risk high reward. A 6/6/6 monarch who reigns 40 years will earn nearly twice the monarch points than a noble republic who manages to keep one ruler for 32 years and then switches, which is, again, the absolutely optimal outcome.

 

[smellymummy]

As I pointed out in another thread, the optimal number of monarch points in a republic is with a noble republic going on a 4 consecutive terms/1 consecutive turn rotation, yielding at most a 6/4/4 ruler. No matter what, a 6/5/5 or 6/6/6 republic leader will require additional one term rulers or you'll revert to a monarchy and that means less overall monarch points.

The strength of republic is not the monarch points in total (monarchies are simply statistically superior even if you don't try to quickly kill off bad heirs and rulers). The advantages are that you suffer less stability losses from succesion and you get to guarantee you're getting a decent amount of the monarch point you need the most of at any particular time. It's a tradeoff between low risk low reward and high risk high reward. A 6/6/6 monarch who reigns 40 years will earn nearly twice the monarch points than a noble republic who manages to keep one ruler for 32 years and then switches, which is, again, the absolutely optimal outcome.

well that might prove true in some case tests, all i know is that in monarch games i continually get low stat rulers and heirs that sometimes will hit a 5, and uncommonly have a 4.

as an admin republic, i chose which stat gets a 4, and then i can +1 each of his stats every 5 years. if a ruler is elected at 30years of age, by 55 he will be 6-6-6, with maybe 20 more years - who knows.

the randomness makes it kind of hard to say which is best and which is worse. but on point here, when playing an admin repub for a long time and then getting forced to have a monarch (ie dutch republic) it's very disappointing. i'll remember this experience in my next NED run

 

[aitaituo]

Sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like monarchies win out because they occasionally get 6/6/6 rulers. Over time, the average monarch gets 10.5 monarch points per month, which outperforms a noble republic by about 300 points every 40 years and 4 year term republics by about 1200 points per 40 years. That works out to between an extra 4 techs and an idea at base cost and 18 techs and an idea at base cost. Again, that's assuming your rulers are merely average.

So, the Dutch republic getting rulers that are effectively monarchs is actually a good thing in terms of monarch points.

 

[The Blood Eagle]

I disagree with that. Because monarch stats affect monarch points, having a low stat ruler is much, much worse than it was in EU3.

Those points will flow regardless, it's nice to have a generous surplus, but unless you get yourself into a heap of trouble, you will probably never find yourself very far behind in tech. In EU3 I found leaders with low diplomacy to be awful. Never get PUs and you suffer from cripping infamy limits. If you play a German nation in this game, you might find yourself converting your own accepted cultures just because you have nothing pressing to spend those diplo points on, since it's tied to naval and trade ideas.