Better start date: Old Gods or Charlamagne?

[aazo5]

I currently own none of the expansions, but want to play a long game where I can start off on Britain before England was formed. I want to then form England, and go on from there. I've heard that both Charlamagne and the Old Gods give good start dates for before England was formed, but which one would be better? Basically, here's what I want:

1. A relatively historically accurate game (France forms, the reconquista happens, Catholics become very powerful)
2. Vikings that exist but aren't so annoying or powerful to the point where it is too dificult.
3. A not-too-difficult kingdom/duchy/county to form England

Also, the ability to play as Pagans and raid sounds very fun to me, but that isn't the main reason that I want to buy one of these expansions. I want a start date that will be fun and historically accurate for most of the kingdoms that I can play, and will allow for a longer game than the 1066 start. The pagans would be a nice bonus though if The Old Gods is better.

 

[Zsrai]

In the British Isles? It sort of doesn't matter, honestly. CM is worse, historically, on the continent than TOG; both are worse historically than 1066 or 1081 by a pretty large margin IIRC. In both earlier start dates you're going to have pain in the ass Vikings raiding, but they don't already start ON the Isles in CM so that may be a (slightly) better option. If you want to be Tribal, you could start in Ireland or Pictland (CM only) too.

 

[aazo5]

Well, I'm also interested in playing pagans, so the Old Gods interests me. Basically, I just want to know if starting in on the isles and forming England fairly early is doable an interesting, and not extremely difficult because of the vikings in the Old Gods expansion.

 

[heliostellar]

Well, I'm also interested in playing pagans, so the Old Gods interests me. Basically, I just want to know if starting in on the isles and forming England fairly early is doable an interesting, and not extremely difficult because of the vikings in the Old Gods expansion.

Well, in CM, the Vikings don't have their CBs to take over the British Isles right away. You can use single county conquest, but the Prepared Invasions don't become available until the 790s. From TOG start, there are two extremely strong pagan starts that are already present in York and SE Scotland that start with tons of event troops and powerful alliances.

Personally, I prefer the CM start over TOG if you're going to go ancient. It seems that Charlie almost never forms an empire these days, which will leave Christendom rather weak when his collection of crowns inevitably disintegrates.

 

[aazo5]

So it is rather hard to form England in TOG start?

 

[Audoucet]

OG starts with a massive Vikings invasion event. CM doesn't. It's the big difference.

OG will be a little more stable in France, there is a little less risk of a massive Islamic invasion.

 

[Audoucet]

So it is rather hard to form England in TOG start?

No, because you can play on either side. You can for example take advantage of the event by playing the norses, and converting to question later.

Forming England won't to be the hardest challenge in the game anyway.

But if you want to buy just one DLC, go for OG, I think everybody would agree on that.

 

[aazo5]

OG starts with a massive Vikings invasion event. CM doesn't. It's the big difference.

OG will be a little more stable in France, there is a little less risk of a massive Islamic invasion.

Okay. I'd prefer that there isn't an Islamic takeover in my game.

No, because you can play on either side. You can for example take advantage of the event by playing the norses, and converting to question later.

Forming England won't to be the hardest challenge in the game anyway.

But if you want to buy just one DLC, go for OG, I think everybody would agree on that.

Alright, then I'll pick up Old gods. Thanks guys.

 

[Thrake]

But if you want to buy just one DLC, go for OG, I think everybody would agree on that.

Yes.

As for start dates, TOG start is more fragmented while CM features lots of blobs. I like CM start to play a vassal as it takes a while before to shift power balance compared to liege in my favor; if you want to be independant but not a blob then TOG is probably better as there are more smaller realms. Better than being a pagan duke neighbouring Francia

As for England specifically, I think it's more fragmented in CM. At least, it stays fragmented in CM and germanic don't get any boats before like two decades at least, so it leaves you a bit of time before having things set up.

Okay. I'd prefer that there isn't an Islamic takeover in my game.

CM typically ends up with Ummayads forming Hispania and conquering Aquitaine eventually in my games. Abbasids are strong but don't really mess with Europe as the ERE is strong enough to hold them off consistently.

 

[szmik]

Okay. I'd prefer that there isn't an Islamic takeover in my game.

There isn't most of the time, Ummas take Asturias and Aquitaine, then crusades fire in 900 and you can participate to take it back for yourself no problem. In the East Abbas blobs or implodes, checked by Indian kingdoms, Byzantines and a horde blob. Egypt usually gets free and conquers Abbisinia, if it doesn't Abbas take it anyway. Italy is stable, East is random.

edit: but without OG, there's no point buying Charlie

 

[Audoucet]

The big advantage of TOG is that you will get to play all pagans (except Zun), and Zoroastrians, which are a very nice alternative for playing Muslims, or Christians, in the Middle East. It gives LOTS of replay value for lots of places.

 

[Xinkc]

Having played both starts fairly extensively, I say go with The Old Gods DLC. The Umayyad piranha vassals can and will eventually holy war the living hell out of France in the Charlemagne start and there's no guarantee that the Crusades will reverse things. The AI doesn't really cooperate well with allies in a war in the 2.5.x patch series from what I've seen which leads to Karling rump states having more troops than the Umayyads during wars in Aquitaine but being unable to group up and help out in fights.