Better Simulate the Leadup to war?

[PostPaintBoy]

As it stood in EU2, a DOW was a spontaneous thing, it just showed up on your doorstep one day, like a child in a basket. Other than the highly scientific theory of “having a hunch”, there is really no way to predict whether a nation is going attack you, or will just content itself with saying rude words in the direction of your capital.

It would be really nice if there were some more diplomatic events/options that would happen as nations veer towards war, which both the player and AI could utilize. For example, the first step would be ejecting your potential foes diplomats, followed by a diplomatic offensive in neighboring nations to sway opinion. This could be done in the same way as “insults” and “warnings”, with a variety of options available. The goal here is to simulate the period before a war when it was certain that war would come, and the appropriate preparations made.

You may ask “why?” but there are many reasons why this makes sense. First, it enables the player/ai to either start preparation for the coming war, or send out the diplomats in a last ditch effort to avert war. This would add a ton a of suspence to the diplomatic and to a lesser extent, the military aspect of the game. Imagine the stress as you try and avert war with France, or as you pray that your border defenders will be trained in time.

Another purpose of this feature would be reducing stab/bb cost for wars in which the proper process is observed, to reflect that both your people and neighboring countries wouldn’t be caught off guard by the invasion. The player (or AI) could still DOW with no warning to catch their opponent off guard, but it would cost more in terms of stability and international relations (or prestige, if a similar system is added)

 

[George LeS]

As it stood in EU2, a DOW was a spontaneous thing, it just showed up on your doorstep one day, like a child in a basket. Other than the highly scientific theory of “having a hunch”, there is really no way to predict whether a nation is going attack you, or will just content itself with saying rude words in the direction of your capital.

It would be really nice if there were some more diplomatic events/options that would happen as nations veer towards war, which both the player and AI could utilize. For example, the first step would be ejecting your potential foes diplomats, followed by a diplomatic offensive in neighboring nations to sway opinion. This could be done in the same way as “insults” and “warnings”, with a variety of options available. The goal here is to simulate the period before a war when it was certain that war would come, and the appropriate preparations made.

You may ask “why?” but there are many reasons why this makes sense. First, it enables the player/ai to either start preparation for the coming war, or send out the diplomats in a last ditch effort to avert war. This would add a ton a of suspence to the diplomatic and to a lesser extent, the military aspect of the game. Imagine the stress as you try and avert war with France, or as you pray that your border defenders will be trained in time.

Another purpose of this feature would be reducing stab/bb cost for wars in which the proper process is observed, to reflect that both your people and neighboring countries wouldn’t be caught off guard by the invasion. The player (or AI) could still DOW with no warning to catch their opponent off guard, but it would cost more in terms of stability and international relations (or prestige, if a similar system is added)

Essentially, this is a good idea, but it would need work. I do think I see what you're pointing at. In the EU timeframe, it would entail something like a declaration, by England or Prussia, warning RC's not to mess with little Prot countries, or by Spain, objecting to colonization somewhere near the TOT areas. Or many countries' agreeement that Silesia is Austrian. Is that the sort of thing you'd have in mind?

I do like the idea of worsening relations. Of course, is some cases, an event would occur which would give an opportunity for sudden declarations, with much penalty, e.g., France might decide to break bad over William & Mary.

 

[Mowers]

What is required is more depth in the various domestic models that allows an improved approach/build up to war.

When wars break out it would be good to have a model that lists all countries response and view on the war. Doesnt need to be complex, just a scale of
1-5 as to where a particular country view on the war is. Players can select the number themselves. The selection should have an automatic effect on the domestic situation within the country unless there is no domestic interest in any of the countries involved in the war. Thus players can find themselves supporting unpoplar/popular wars and have to face various penalties/bonuses internally

My second point is that random events should trigger around 30% of wars. It should give you an option to decline conflict but with a penalty. Statemen were routinely forced in wars that they didnt really want and that were sparked by unforeseen diplomatic incidents. These events should have multiple stages that create a path to war, allowing various elements to back off along the path for various payments, internal penalities or benefits (depending) so that there is a build up to war.

Much of the random conflict should be over trade, characters, POPs, religion and culture. The list could go on.

 

[The_Pope]

Kick ass suggestion. I'd like to see something, hope this has been suggested in the EUIII wishlist and made it into the design document.

 

[joriandrake]

Kick ass suggestion. I'd like to see something, hope this has been suggested in the EUIII wishlist and made it into the design document.

I just hope dev-s read what we write

 

[Sindai]

The easiest way to implement something like this is probably "issue ultimatum." If you have a cassus belli you could demand something of your enemy, and if they don't comply within a set time you can choose to go to war or back down.

 

[joriandrake]

The easiest way to implement something like this is probably "issue ultimatum." If you have a cassus belli you could demand something of your enemy, and if they don't comply within a set time you can choose to go to war or back down.

This is also the real meaning of casus belli

 

[unmerged(45766)]

I agree, wars shouldn't always be a sudden surprise.

Not only is it not realistic (sometimes yes, but most often not), but moreover the AI often DoWs when its armies are on another border, so that they're not ready for war. AI doesn't follow a strategy, or a goal, but it simply reacts on a formula taking relations + CB + relative strengths + aggressivity settings/factors into account, and then grabs any province it can, without much more strategy.

 

[unmerged(47151)]

You should be able to demand any diplomatic treaty as an ultimatum, so you can for instance demand someone becomes a vassal or else. However ultimatums like wars should give you BB, so it's better to try and get a casus-belli without giving an ultimatum. Some ultimatums are seen as more just than others, so national provinces would cost less BB to demand for instance.