.png){kind=avatar}
Let's use the new Question function to democratically elevate a better alternative to 'Southern Baltic Empire'!
- 1
Better name for 'Southern Baltic Empire'?
- Thread starter Ul90
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
- Status
Wenedish Empire was awful as well, yet it was 100 times better. These are problems which arise from the wrong assumption that every duchy needs to be a part of a de jure kingdom and that every kingdom needs to be a part of a de jure empire.
- 5
- 1
- 1
While there are probably more creative names. I'd gladly take just 'The Baltic Empire' over 'The Southern Baltic Empire'.
The southern part is weird, as it seems to imply there is a Northern Baltic Empire that you need to use the southern to differentiate from (and while there is the Scandinavia Empire, it doesn't use Baltic in it's name). It's like how the modern day Baltic countries (or languages) aren't generally called the more descriptive East Baltic countries (or languages) because there isn't another group of countries (or languages) that are generally referred to using Baltic in the name, so you don't need the extra level of differentiation.
Now I can see a problem with Baltic generally refering to the Prussians, Lithuanians, and Latgalians. And does not generally include the Polish and Pomeranians that also make up the empire. Now it is possible that an empire forming could cause the term to be expanded to refer to all the cultures involved. But probably would be better to have Baltic be the generic name, and the Polish and Pomeranians have a culture specific version that is used when they form the empire.
The southern part is weird, as it seems to imply there is a Northern Baltic Empire that you need to use the southern to differentiate from (and while there is the Scandinavia Empire, it doesn't use Baltic in it's name). It's like how the modern day Baltic countries (or languages) aren't generally called the more descriptive East Baltic countries (or languages) because there isn't another group of countries (or languages) that are generally referred to using Baltic in the name, so you don't need the extra level of differentiation.
Now I can see a problem with Baltic generally refering to the Prussians, Lithuanians, and Latgalians. And does not generally include the Polish and Pomeranians that also make up the empire. Now it is possible that an empire forming could cause the term to be expanded to refer to all the cultures involved. But probably would be better to have Baltic be the generic name, and the Polish and Pomeranians have a culture specific version that is used when they form the empire.
- 5
- 2
Then let it be called just Baltic Empire. South Baltic Empire is ridiculous and assume that there is or can be another Baltic Empire, like for instance Northern Baltic Empire.
I think Wenedish Empire is the best one we can envisage. If we don't want to call it just Polish Empire other option is Slavic Empire.
Goths and Vandals lived in the territory of contemporary Poland and early Polish rulers (and not only early) were called rulers of Goths and Vandals. Mieszko I was called duke of Vandals by some German chronicle writer, whereas at his tombstone Bolesław the Brave wa called king of Slavs, Goths and Poles (Sclavorum, Gottorum, Polonorum) so another option is something associated with Goths and Vandals.
Last edited:
- 1
The region is called Ponengaria in this 1491 T and O map. It is Germania Superior in this 13th Century one. Vandalia in this one. I mean, is really difficult to find a Historical term for such a vast and diverse region.
- 1
- 1
Vandalia is my favourite so far, I was thinking of Vendland / Vendia but Vandalia is far better
- 2
.png){kind=avatar}
It's one empire covering Poland, Pomerania, Lithuania, and in 867 Bohemia and Great Moravia. It's essentially covering both the West Slavic and the Baltic cultures. "Baltic Empire" probably works best, kept in English... It's definitely too early to call it the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth!
There's Samo's Empire covering the southern part of the land, but that's also a bad name. At least it does refer to the West Slavs.
In Lithuanian, one name of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth is the Abiejų Tautų Respublika, which means "Republic of Two Nations." Certainly it wouldn't be a republic, but "two nations" would be one way to describe a merger of the West Slavs and Balts.
There's Samo's Empire covering the southern part of the land, but that's also a bad name. At least it does refer to the West Slavs.
In Lithuanian, one name of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth is the Abiejų Tautų Respublika, which means "Republic of Two Nations." Certainly it wouldn't be a republic, but "two nations" would be one way to describe a merger of the West Slavs and Balts.
- 2
- 1
Just "Baltic Empire" would sound better than "Southern Baltic Empire", I agree.
- 1
I reckon a way to solve this would be to call the de Jure Empire 'Baltic Empire', but have a unique name and Coat of Arms for each culture inside of it.
Under a Polish Ruler? Polandia (or something more appropriate) and a CoA with an Eagle. etc.
The unique Coat of Arms depending on the previous primary title of the North Sea is a great proof of concept that should be applied to more situations.
This may overlap with one of the Unite the Slavs decisions, but would make for a more flavourful Empire, especially when created by the AI, which, let be frank, will never use the Unite the Slavs decision.
Under a Polish Ruler? Polandia (or something more appropriate) and a CoA with an Eagle. etc.
The unique Coat of Arms depending on the previous primary title of the North Sea is a great proof of concept that should be applied to more situations.
This may overlap with one of the Unite the Slavs decisions, but would make for a more flavourful Empire, especially when created by the AI, which, let be frank, will never use the Unite the Slavs decision.
Last edited:
- 5
- 1
The fact that in 867 the empire includes Czech and Slovien territories makes anything Baltic ridiculous. Southern part of the empire is closer to the Adriatic and Aegean seas than it is to the Baltic. Eastern part is also probably closer to the Black Sea.
Wendish Empire was fine. The term "Wend" referred to various groups of Slavs, including Slovenes, Slovaks, Western Slavs in general or, in some cases, Slavs as a whole (in some language the term for Slavs stems from "Wend" even today). The connection to the Baltic people is smaller, but there was a Baltic tribe called Vendi/Wendi and one of the cities in Latvia is called Wenden in German. You could perhaps make the empire name change based on culture group with Wendish Empire for West Slavs and something else for the Baltic people (in this case even the Baltic Empire would do, I suppose because with such a setup it'd be clear the name refers to the culture rather than the sea), but making it change for every single culture would be too much.
Wendish Empire was fine. The term "Wend" referred to various groups of Slavs, including Slovenes, Slovaks, Western Slavs in general or, in some cases, Slavs as a whole (in some language the term for Slavs stems from "Wend" even today). The connection to the Baltic people is smaller, but there was a Baltic tribe called Vendi/Wendi and one of the cities in Latvia is called Wenden in German. You could perhaps make the empire name change based on culture group with Wendish Empire for West Slavs and something else for the Baltic people (in this case even the Baltic Empire would do, I suppose because with such a setup it'd be clear the name refers to the culture rather than the sea), but making it change for every single culture would be too much.
If something like this was to exist, it would be a suggestion.
Putting it to voting is effectively a poll. Polls are against forum rules, unless sponsored by a moderator.
I know the forum lets you do a question type thread with voting. It doesn't make sense to me either.
Putting it to voting is effectively a poll. Polls are against forum rules, unless sponsored by a moderator.
I know the forum lets you do a question type thread with voting. It doesn't make sense to me either.
- 1
- Status