Beta of 5.1 - 21st June 2011 - Discussion Thread

[6354201]

The exploit was that if you got the event, released the province as a vassal and then gave the province to the Emperor, it was immediately ceded back to you.

If that's what it's referring to then great.

Because the Golden Horde shouldn't be getting to the Adriatic and the Baltic. The Timurids shouldn't be reaching the Red Sea. Lithuania shouldn't be gone by 1410 almost every game. And the nation that replaces them should more often be Russia.

Right, I should have qualified my statement by saying the idea is as it should be. The implementation leaves something to be desired at times. Plus, I was more so replying to sad king billy who who mentioned their implosion as also being part of the problem.

 

[sad king billy]

Then I didn't make myself clear. I don't mind that the Golden Horde, or the other hordes are removed from the game. I take issue with the way that happens. The colonisation of steppe lands should be a slow and arduous effort. Instead, there is a point where all Horde territory (to use as example) is relatively suddenly controlled by the various nations, instantly removing whatever threat they had. The Horde is then incapable of defending itself, and the colonisation that follows also leads to extremely ugly nations. I don't think there are any games I've played where the Horde isn't completely colonised by 1500, almost completely by one of the Big Three (Lithouania, Bohemia or Poland) around 1500.

edit: also, the Horde will usually screw over the northern countries that can form Russia - Muscovvy & Novgorod;

 

[NimaFoulaam]

Can I copy it over the current install (last patch) or do I need a fresh install?

 

[6354201]

Then I didn't make myself clear. I don't mind that the Golden Horde, or the other hordes are removed from the game. I take issue with the way that happens. The colonisation of steppe lands should be a slow and arduous effort. Instead, there is a point where all Horde territory (to use as example) is relatively suddenly controlled by the various nations, instantly removing whatever threat they had. The Horde is then incapable of defending itself, and the colonisation that follows also leads to extremely ugly nations. I don't think there are any games I've played where the Horde isn't completely colonised by 1500, almost completely by one of the Big Three (Lithouania, Bohemia or Poland) around 1500.

edit: also, the Horde will usually screw over the northern countries that can form Russia - Muscovvy & Novgorod;

I see what you mean now. This would helped greatly by taking away the +100% manpower/forcelimits bonus that horde countries get. I don't understand why it was added in the first place since the Timurids and Golden Horde are already strong countries, and giving the East Asian hordes the bonus doesn't help because they are still way too poor to fight against the Ming.

I also think that the colonization mechanic should be removed and replaced with the same mechanic that the hordes use to take settled territory. It would take out the unequal aspect (and just general clunky nature) involved in colonizing territory. It's too random (based on chance of success that can be have devastating consequences if you fail to get that last colonist to a province so it defects to you), too dependent on colonist growth (which gives European nations a nonsensical advantage because they get bonus colonists due to being Christian), and it's too uneven (if you are trying to a conquer a horde, even if a weak horde, that's very far from your capital, it can literally take decades to take all the territory).

 

[jdrou]

Can I copy it over the current install (last patch) or do I need a fresh install?

Should be OK to copy over previous beta.

 

[DominusNovus]

Can be add to "wish list" something like that: reach last year of game. We got msg "Age of revolution etc coming". And two options "its enought - end game". Second option "I play so slow, but love EU3 mechanic and want play in future - keep play even to 10k years".

If you want that, just use a mod that does the same.

 

[lordkestrel]

Can I copy it over the current install (last patch) or do I need a fresh install?

There isn't anything I can see that would cause it to not work, the changes are pretty small.

edit: Here is the diff, as you can see it is a pretty small list of changed files.

diff -ruwq 20110517 20110621 
Files 20110517/common/cb_types.txt and 20110621/common/cb_types.txt differ
Only in 20110621/common/countries: crimea.txt
Only in 20110621/common/countries: goldenhorde.txt
Only in 20110621/common/countries: trebizond.txt
Files 20110517/decisions/france.txt and 20110621/decisions/france.txt differ
Only in 20110621/decisions: liberumveto.txt
Files 20110517/decisions/restorebyzantineempire.txt and 20110621/decisions/restorebyzantineempire.txt differ
Files 20110517/eu3game.exe and 20110621/eu3game.exe differ
Only in 20110621/events: empires.txt
Files 20110517/events/ideaevents.txt and 20110621/events/ideaevents.txt differ
Files 20110517/events/japanevents.txt and 20110621/events/japanevents.txt differ
Files 20110517/events/randomprovinceevents.txt and 20110621/events/randomprovinceevents.txt differ
Files 20110517/events/sliders.txt and 20110621/events/sliders.txt differ
Only in 20110621/history/provinces: 1349 - nicobar isles.txt
Only in 20110621/history/provinces: 731 - ninguta.txt
Files 20110517/localisation/httt.csv and 20110621/localisation/httt.csv differ
Files 20110517/missions/conquest.txt and 20110621/missions/conquest.txt differ
Files 20110517/missions/construction.txt and 20110621/missions/construction.txt differ
Files 20110517/missions/hansa_missions.txt and 20110621/missions/hansa_missions.txt differ
Files 20110517/missions/papal_states_missions.txt and 20110621/missions/papal_states_missions.txt differ

 

[Blackadder V]

Well it has certainly fixed something as this is the first time since I bought the game (since In Nomine) that the game doesn't freeze and then crash (after task manager shutdown) when I quit the game. It now goes straight to desktop like normal. Thanks paradox

 

[6354201]

Can I copy it over the current install (last patch) or do I need a fresh install?

You definitely don't need a fresh install, just go ahead and copy over the existing files.

 

[17blue17]

Hi.

Map mod dir should be fixed..

Sorry to report map mod dir does not appear to be fixed FOR EXTEND = .

Tested with Terra Nova mod with the following results:

1) deleted mods map cache and quads sub folder and changed map = extend in mod file. Result CTD

2) deleted mods map cache and quads sub folder also deleted main game map cache and quads sub folder and changed map = extend in mod file. Result CTD

3) deleted main game map cache and quads sub folder. Copied mods non cache non quads files in to the main game. Did not extend map. In other words did not use mod dir for map. Result - No CTD.

4) used main game results from #3 and copied main game cache and quads back into mod and then used extend for map. Result CTD.

Conclusion - mod dir using extend is still broken for mods. Did not test with replace =

CAN SOMEONE ELSE PLEASE TEST WITH ANOTHER MOD???? TO CONFIRM.





EDIT: just tested with replace = and replace seems to work. Downside is that we have to include ALL the extra terrain files etc which really increases the size of any download. Would be nice to have extend = working.

 

[jdrou]

The part about the cache building does seem to be fixed; my personal mod that only changes the region.txt file does work with extend = "map" now.

 

[Korsan82]

Hordes? What about hordes? Didn't they get a tweak yet?

Daimyos:
Setting hardcoded borders into a game meant to be borderless seems to be the biggest DESIGN flaw in this expansion pack. I wish there was a "Like" button just to see how many people support this.

 

[NimaFoulaam]

@jdrou+lordkestrel+6354201

Thanks

 

[jdrou]

The patch does add a new bug with the Formal Request event that people may want to fix themselves; it's just deleting an extra } in a file:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?543419-6-21-beta-mismatched-braces-in-event-6007

 

[corporateslave]

While the improvements are great, I am extremely disappointed that - to the best of my knowledge (it doesn't say so in the patch-notes), this patch DID NOT FIX the Japan-problem. Dayiomos are still unannexable and Japan is still unconquerable unless it unifies which the AI rarely does. I don't understand why this does not take priority to be honest, because you seem to be fixing very small issues by now.

Thats the design.

If the AI is incapable of unifying Japan and three of your achievements are practically impossible to collect as a result, then I'd say your design needs some work.

 

[fenwayb]

I see what you mean now. This would helped greatly by taking away the +100% manpower/forcelimits bonus that horde countries get. I don't understand why it was added in the first place since the Timurids and Golden Horde are already strong countries, and giving the East Asian hordes the bonus doesn't help because they are still way too poor to fight against the Ming.

I also think that the colonization mechanic should be removed and replaced with the same mechanic that the hordes use to take settled territory. It would take out the unequal aspect (and just general clunky nature) involved in colonizing territory. It's too random (based on chance of success that can be have devastating consequences if you fail to get that last colonist to a province so it defects to you), too dependent on colonist growth (which gives European nations a nonsensical advantage because they get bonus colonists due to being Christian), and it's too uneven (if you are trying to a conquer a horde, even if a weak horde, that's very far from your capital, it can literally take decades to take all the territory).

correct me if I'm wrong but shouldn't this also help to ensure that its MAINLY the russians who get the land, instead of it consistently being poland/lithuania/bohemia/austria? (russia has cores on that land, right?)

 

[ashbery76]

If the AI is incapable of unifying Japan and three of your achievements are practically impossible to collect as a result, then I'd say your design needs some work.

Indeed.

 

[Golwar]

I think there should be HRE dismantle option, If you control Kyoto+ capitals of all Daiymo's, Shogunate ceases to exist.

+1
In reality it wouldn't matter to a conquerer if his victims solved their quarrels among each other before he punched them. I don't see a good reason why a game should handle it differently.

 

[FabiusBile]

If the AI is incapable of unifying Japan and three of your achievements are practically impossible to collect as a result, then I'd say your design needs some work.

Has anyone ever seen Japan form? I did it myself playing Taira and you need pretty high prestige, I think the AI would never be able to achieve that. I mean the "sources" of prestige are rather limited .

 

[Xerxes 8933A]

Has anyone ever seen Japan form? I did it myself playing Taira and you need pretty high prestige, I think the AI would never be able to achieve that. I mean the "sources" of prestige are rather limited .

It formed in 1600 in my latest game of 5.0.