Beta of 5.1 - 21st June 2011 - Discussion Thread

[Johan]

Hi.

Map mod dir should be fixed, AI should be better at building buildings and we fixed a few other things..

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?543380-Beta-of-5.1-21st-June-2011

 

[Trin Tragula]

Fixing replace is a great step forward
I look forward to trying out this patch, too bad I can't do so before the weekend...

 

[Captain Gars]

I think we've had enough of the "fix mod dir vs. fix Japan" debate.

 

[Captain Gars]

I have a sort of general question about patches. So these patches are all text files and an exe. If that's the case, how do bugs in the hardcoded parts of the game get fixed? Or am I throwing around terms that I don't understand?

Yes The exe is the "hardcoded parts".

 

[hlilje]

Silly question perhaps, but what privileges do I need to download the beta patch?

 

[Captain Gars]

Me answering a question from Ratlegion on page 11 has since spiraled out of control into personal attacks and not discussions about the patch. From now on I will leave further comments and questions about the patch and the EUIII forum in general for Johan and Kallocain to answer.

If you have any comments about me, send a PM and lets keep this thread about the patch.

 

[Darkrenown]

Ok people. This should be obvious, but of course the more personal attacks people launch at devs the less likely they are to talk to people on the forums. We talk to you because we like talking about the games/what you think of them/what needs improving etc. And while I agree we should fix all the bugs we can, and it's good to explain to people why we take certain decisions, this is not some kind of guaranteed right that you can rudely demand. If people do things they're not required to do and get abuse in return they are less likely to do it again in future.

I understand it is frustrating when some part of a game doesn't work correctly or just doesn't work how you want it to. But it is not possible to fix/change everything everyone wants fixed or changed, and it is even more not possible to do all of them instantly. If you make a reasonable post about an issue it will most likely be noticed and possibly replied to. If you are rude you are more likely to get no reply, or one that addresses your tone rather than your issue. Think about how you would talk to someone in real life, or how you would feel if someone spoke to you in the way you are writing, if you think "wow, that is pretty rude!" you should most likely not post that.

 

[Darkrenown]

I'm just a bit curious about where the line is, in the minds of Paradox, which demarcates excessive criticism. I ask because, on the job, I've found that programmers often take personal offense at criticism of their programs' features.

Obviously "Johan is &^%$" is wrong.

But, in response to "It's WAD", is "The design is &^%$", over the top?

In the absence of "It's WAD", is "The design is &^%$", over the top, or not?

Just want to know. I try to avoid the personal, but in discussing game features, especially naval ones, I confess to sometimes talking like a sailor.

"The design is bad/I do not like the design" etc is fine. If your &^%$ becomes actual curse words it's against the rules though.

 

[Darkrenown]

Stop asking questions. Everyone here, myself included, must eventually acknowledge that what we say makes SENSE, but it's what Paradox says that makes DOLLARS!

Yeah, no. "Don't make personal attacks" =! "No one is allowed to ask questions". If you want to troll, find another forum.

 

[Darkrenown]

Thanks. But anyway, let's get back to posting about the patch/game etc

 

[Darkrenown]

Last post about this here, but:

Why is Japan working as designed in it's current state?

Couldn't it be considered trolling for someone to post something inflationary like Japan is working as designed, without a follow up? That was the very beginning of how this thread got off topic in the first place. Many of these ideas and complaints have been said before without any response or resolution, and when Balor said what he did it seems as though that is the closest this forum has ever come to hearing a reason why the Japan problem has never been rectified. So, 15 pages in, we are still asking the same question. What you call trolling would be eased significantly if we could only have an answer to this simple question.

I'm sure I've talked about Japan in the past. And no, I don't think Johan saying saying it's working as designed could be counted as trolling, nor do I think he's required to answer further questions from you unless he feels like it. I can't speak for him, but I supect he saw people saying "X is happening" and since X is WAD, he made a quick "That's WAD" post. It was a quick, off the cuff remark from his home account, and he's off this week. There's no sinister background to it.

As for Japan. The whole "Japan is internally divided, but externally still viewed as one country" system meant we had to make the emperor's nation un-annexable, as it's loss would break the daimyo system. The downside of this is of course that you cannot conquer Japan before it has been united. "WAD" doesn't mean "Perfect" or "Will never change", but it is working in the way it was designed to do.

However, if you want to talk about the design of Japan further, please make a new thread.

How is remarking that the patch still hasn't implemented something he thinks it should have not talking about the patch?!

Well you could talk about almost anything here by that logic. Try to keep the patch threads to stuff that has changed in the patch, as getting feedback about that is the prime purpose of these threads.

 

[Johan]

And yes, AndrewT i knew that you were fixing stuff, im just saying, thats basically an individual effort, a dedicated team could work much more efficiently, even beta test stuff much faster than one individual can. On top of that, im not really keen on reporting stuff, im just too lazy to do that within required format.

It doesn't work.

We've had some of the most renowned modders/community people working together helping on various times at helping us with bugfixes or research data for games for the last decade.

What always happens is the following.

1) They require alot of babysitting. Which someone with design knowledge has to do, which rather negates the purpose.
2) Focus becomes rather scattered, depending on the personal whims of the volunteers.
3) Errors creep in into the files, and they may base them on wrong versions.

Basically, for every 5 volunteers, you need someone paid to manage them for as much time as they spend on fixing things, and well... 1 guy is basically 33% of a paradox development team.

 

[Johan]

Quick request, if by chance any developer reads me: I see you've fixed the AI building buildings (I wasn't aware it was bugged, but anyway ), could we have some sort of "ai_chance" modifier in the buildings.txt file?
It could be useful for mods that give some events if you build specific buildings or things like that. Some sort of control over what building the AI will prioritize.
(BTW, how clever is the AI? Does it generally builds all buildings, or does it builds them depending on it's need/what it will bring?)


Wouldn't it be easier to allow to DOW daimyos, but all at once? And to only be able to make peace with all of them at once? Would probably have had the same effect without all the "side-effects" people seem to complain about.
Not that I care, I never ever invade Japan.

The AI checks the values for the modifier values to weight which building.

However, I could make an additional AI_chance for modders.....

 

[Darkrenown]

We're still waiting on a solution to that. I was going to point your at the forum help thread, but I see you have posted there already.

 

[Darkrenown]

It seems very shady that Paradox insists on tying technical support to registering a game to a forum, especially when they constantly have issues with keys for different games. Doing it for icons to show your support is one thing, but actually providing support, or lack thereof due to registration problems is wrong.

Hardly "constantly", although I'm sure we could help people out outside the tech support forum if there's any registration issues.