Beta of 5.1 - 12th July 2011 - Discussion Thread

[Icarium]

Because otherwise gutting the Empire as the Ottomans would be too cheap'n'easy. The HRE contains most of the best provinces in the world (including most of the present-in-1399 manufactories IIRC), and many of them are (of themselves) quite poorly defended due to being parts of tiny minors, so there absolutely should be an exceptional cost associated with taking HRE territory by main force even if you're a Muslim.

It's easy anyway, as long as you are powerful enough a few stab hits won't stop you, or you will take "only" five HRE provinces per war and immediately take them out of the Empire by using the five available magistrates. I only screwed up because I forgot to gather enough magistrates. Not to mention that the other effects of refusing to hand over the province (+10 RR, etc) are quite punishing on their own and that creating huge empires is way too easy in general in EU III. I wouldn't mind increasing the revolt risk for all new conquered provinces and making the HRE ones even more likely to rebel than the rest of the world but the stab hit is perfectly nonsensical if you are playing a non-Christian country.

I agree Imperial provinces should be hard to take, but if you look at the text of the Formal Request and consider what's happening from a 'role-play' perspective it makes absolutely no sense. Why would refusing a Christian Emperor's demand to hand back territory you just conquered result in a loss of stability in your Muslim nation? If anything, accepting the demands would be seen as a huge embarrassment, and that would cause stability loss (and a loss of prestige) in your nation.

Exactly.

 

[lordkestrel]

Uh, yes there are? I've gotten a Reconquest CB against the Timurids as the Ottomans.

Unless you mean hordes don't get CBs, which is true.

You shouldn't. Non-nomadic governments are supposed to have 0 valid CBs against nomadic governments. Had the Timmehs reformed into a Despotic Monarchy?

 

[TAMBOURINESNAKE]

You shouldn't. Non-nomadic governments are supposed to have 0 valid CBs against nomadic governments. Had the Timmehs reformed into a Despotic Monarchy?

Still Steppe Hordes. It was a February-ish beta patch, though, so it may have changed in the interm.

 

[Duskey]

I wanna suggest that troops set to rebel hunting, also go for rebels in territory currently occupied by you. Eg. when revolters start popping up.

 

[ForzaA]

I'd recommend having the retreat automatically go to the province from whence you came, and thence to the closest port from THAT province/sea zone. It'd make a lot more sense. With the EXCELLENT no-interception feature, I think this would work very well.

Sounds good to me, though it does need one exception (at least) ; If one is *forced* out of harbour, and thus the "return to previous province" would be invalid.

 

[delra]

Tribute paid to the hordes should be cut across the board - especially for the smaller countries. Genoa being forced to pay 30/year is simply unrealistic, immediately deprives them of their colonies in the Crimea (which they are supposed to have historically).

I like the change that allows AI sign peace for tribute more easily allowing Poland, Lithuania, Muscowy or Novgorod to just pay up to have peace of mind - because for me hordes should be exactly that, a racketeering bully for their neighbors. But to make it work for smaller and more shaky countries (Genoa, Georgia, Candar, Karaman, Hungary, Moldavia...) the tribute the horde demands should be smaller - or they just can't pay it and get vanished from the map. I think it'd be in horde's interested to neutralize big countries and surround themselves with smaller tribute-paying ones which can be kept in check more easily.

Now it's the other way round, big countries pay and get to live while small ones get annexed. That's wrong in my opinion - smaller countries are asked to pay way too much tribute money.

Is the amount of tribute hordes ask for moddable?

 

[Draelkar]

If they were finalizing the patch right now, writing a full installation for and all, does anyone know how long that process should typically take?

 

[Apocaliptica]

1-2 weeks I think.
creating an installer is easy though, there are enough freeware tools around.

 

[Colombo]

Problem is, that Hordes have no reason to get tribute. Only the money. When there is only little money... They will just slowly dimnish due to technology this way or another, so it is always better to just conquer all.

If there would be different way to do that... If Hordes could get those 50 tech penalty (or even some bonus) back because of taking vassals or forcing others paying tribute. If they would be given some troops etc. This would made taking countris to pay tribute worth enough to do this, and even better than just conquering spree.

 

[ANO1453]

(Regency Council) embarrasses the court...
Maybe this shouldn't appear in a regency

 

[Refardeon]

(Regency Council) embarrasses the court...
Maybe this shouldn't appear in a regency

Why not? Even a Regent (Regency Council) could embarrass the court

 

[jdrou]

(Regency Council) embarrasses the court...
Maybe this shouldn't appear in a regency

I see no reason the effect shouldn't happen for a regency; someone could still cause embarrassment. Might need a separate version of the event with its own text to make more sense though.

 

[highsis]

Japan is still not conuarable because shogunate dismantle event does not work properly. What the hell!

 

[ANO1453]

Japan is still not conuarable because shogunate dismantle event does not work properly. What the hell!

In my game Japan was already dismantled and conquered by 1460. Now Fujiwara is taking its place.
Maybe we need a unify Japan decision (giving cores and changing tag) if the shogunate is not active and a player owns some certain provinces.

 

[MichaelM]

I see no reason the effect shouldn't happen for a regency; someone could still cause embarrassment. Might need a separate version of the event with its own text to make more sense though.

Some of the other events in Dynastic.txt don't make a lot of sense for regency councils. For example, the Wedding Bells chain and Seeing the Real You (wherein the regency council could scorn its wife).

 

[jdrou]

Some of the other events in Dynastic.txt don't make a lot of sense for regency councils. For example, the Wedding Bells chain and Seeing the Real You (wherein the regency council could scorn its wife).

Yes, those should probably just have a regency = no trigger.

 

[FrancescoT]

What I saw in my last 5 games with Milan on VH LA with 12 July Beta patch around 1415-20:
- GH is still out of control. Usually after annexing Moldavia (normal), It annex more or less half of Lithuania before Poland offer defeat. Russian minor, when their are lucky, lost 1 or 2 provinces before accepting tribute but too high for their economy, around 6-8-10 ducats per month;
- in 2 games GH was at war with Hungary and before accepting defeat, it annexed one province bordering Austria and Bohemia, so war with them also and 30/40 GH regiments wandering around Central Europe at 3 or 4 provinces distance from GH mainland. Problems for Bohemia (not HRE emperor) and problems also for Austria (HRE emperor but at war with Burgundy);
- OE has no chance after falling of Moldavia when it has to be at war with GH and Timur at the same time;
- England all they time, right after the start, try to annex irish minor, no matter the mission, without any valid CB so taking 8bb in the process every time;
- as usual Castille is in Africa and Asia minor already in 1403-05;
- at hard and very hard difficult level, income bonus for AI country has an exponential effects on horde country with their +100% force limit modifier and access to mercenary regiments.

Maybe it's just bad luck, but things seem to be still unbalanced with horder in general and GH e Timur in particular.

 

[sprites]

when I tried Muscowy , the tribute would have been 0.9/month , not 6 or 10 ducats ... but GH accepted my defeat without a single battle

 

[lordkestrel]

when I tried Muscowy , the tribute would have been 0.9/month , not 6 or 10 ducats ... but GH accepted my defeat without a single battle

It scales based upon your income.

 

[Avindian]

when I tried Muscowy , the tribute would have been 0.9/month , not 6 or 10 ducats ... but GH accepted my defeat without a single battle

I'm almost positive that hordes are programmed to always accept tribute if offered; I won't swear to it, but I'm 99% sure that's the case.