Beta of 5.1 - 11th July 2011 - Discussion Thread

[nOxr]

For the record. Hordes being powerful early and then declining is the intent.

Thats the way we want it, but the feature needs to be tweaked a bit more in order for it to be fun. I realise you're not going to do any large changes at this moment, so I'm going to think of one simple change that would improve the hordes the most.

The hordes ought to value getting tribute a lot higher in peace negotiations and their neighbours ought to value paying tribute less, resulting in earlier peace deals and shorter wars. The goal would be to have less protracted horde wars and therefore less land gained by the hordes due to the occupation mechanic. The neighbours will not be as messed up and the hordes will not be overextending themselves.

 

[unmerged(202023)]

Thats the way we want it, but the feature needs to be tweaked a bit more in order for it to be fun. I realise you're not going to do any large changes at this moment, so I'm going to think of one simple change that would improve the hordes the most.

The hordes ought to value getting tribute a lot higher in peace negotiations and their neighbours ought to value paying tribute less, resulting in earlier peace deals and shorter wars. The goal would be to have less protracted horde wars and therefore less land gained by the hordes due to the occupation mechanic. The neighbours will not be as messed up and the hordes will not be overextending themselves.

I think the WS-Value of "give tribute" should be the current warscore+10 or so up to a maximum of 100.

 

[johnnyb]

In game they are powerful more than 70 years. They should be powerful about 40 years max in game and then be replaced with even more powerful Russia.

So no Russia and no Ottomans in most games because of initial strengths of hordes.

Didn't it take 120-160 years from game start for muscowy to "form Russia" and start expanding into the steppes? I'm no expert but I have read a Russian history book and played eu1 and eu2.

 

[ANO1453]

Yeah, AI can colonize fairly well if it has resources. However, it has difficulty defeating the more numerous and better equiped (pre 1500 or so) horde armies.

I've noticed that Muscovy blobs perfectly well from a 1454 start (lots of minors instead of one big horde). Giving smaller states cores on GH territory and upping the revolt risk should bring the 1454 situation more quickly.

Yes, in my game it seems that revolts are the only way the nomads lose territory (they haven't got territory - yet - from the Russian states though).

I just noticed I can see what's going on at Kalmykia... even though I'm Portugal and Kalmykia belongs to Astrakhan. Bug?

 

[Pleiades]

Didn't it take 120-160 years from game start for muscowy to "form Russia" and start expanding into the steppes? I'm no expert but I have read a Russian history book and played eu1 and eu2.

I presume you think when you use counter in " before Start Game menu".

As for developing of things in game itself, yes - it did happen most of the time in HttT properly when you start 1399 scenario. But in DW even if you start with 1453 scenario there is high chance that Russia will not be formed.

Instead Russia, in DW Moscowy usually expands east toward Ural and Siberia, but not over rich Ukrainian and Belarus provinces, which means Moscowy economically is behind Poland, Lithuania, Bohemia and even Ottomans and so Moscowy is rarely challenge and threat in DW for human players who play those countries. Not to mention that both Moscowy and Novgorod cannot overcome each other and form Russia like it was very nice presented in HttT.

 

[Paul Bambury]

Anyone noticing in their games with this beta that the bi-yearly pulse events don't seem to be firing correctly? I get one or two for the first couple of years and then nothing after that.

 

[Me_]

France is represented in-game not as a unified country but a central one with a bunch of vassals. Perhaps the big hordes (Golden Horde, Timurids) could get similar treatement.

 

[Apocaliptica]

actually a nice idea, afaik the golden horde was "divided" into the blue and white horde.