Beta of 5.1 - 10th of May 2011 - Discussion Thread

[varonel]

I think if the hordes would be always willing to accept tribute to end the war, would fix a lot of problems, as you would have the means to stop them from taking you over.

 

[Sickness_]

I start at around 1450 to avoid having the hordes mess so much up. I hope they will get toned down a notch in the next patch.

 

[unmerged(284034)]

Perhaps a possible cure to this new super horde would be to remove the limitiation of calling in your allies to deal with them. I'd imagine if half the continent is being steam rolled, you'd be calling all your allies to help push them back

 

[pyroclastic]

Is there an easy way to shut off the increased amount of random events? The constant bad events are driving things straight into the outhouse near game start, and if they also happen to AI nations things will likely get economically fugly quick.

So.. is it as easy as commenting out a couple lines?

Look at on_yearly_pulse in common/on_actions.txt. The possible events (all in events/randomevents.txt) are listed by number. You could delete them entirely, you could comment out some of the bad ones, or if you just want to reduce the frequency, you could write a dummy event that does nothing and give it priority of 20000 or so.

 

[DDRJake]

HAve the endless Wokaw Pirate Raids for countries other than korea/ming been fixed yet?

 

[Nefaro]

Look at on_yearly_pulse in common/on_actions.txt. The possible events (all in events/randomevents.txt) are listed by number. You could delete them entirely, you could comment out some of the bad ones, or if you just want to reduce the frequency, you could write a dummy event that does nothing and give it priority of 20000 or so.

Thank you! I'll look into it.

 

[mlepkows]

My point was to describe the situation when the game starts. Everyone is able to survive and become a superpower once correctly launched, but the start of the game is now more random and difficult, when it's the middle-late game which should be made more challenging to encourage people to play until the end of the scenario.

I'd say that Otto start is one of the less random ones - you have Timurids on your back and Venice&friends are going to come in about 10 years or so. It isn't significantly harder either, I think. If you mean the random stab hits - well, they are manageable, you just can't optimise sliders and inflation. All in all I see a rise in difficulty but it seems to be on the right level. Perheaps other countries have it rougher but the outcome with hordes seems to be rather historical - they fall apart.

Also, I got my Otto game to 1600 and I noticed one huge bonus - the usual Castillian holdings in Egypt and Middle East are devoured by Timmies (due to the occupation mechanics) who are in turn devoured by local powers and rebels. This ends with the region staying muslim - huge improvement.

Maciek

 

[Hvymtlboy]

Perhaps a possible cure to this new super horde would be to remove the limitiation of calling in your allies to deal with them. I'd imagine if half the continent is being steam rolled, you'd be calling all your allies to help push them back

That's what vassals are for Especially as either the Ottomans or the Byzantines, why rule all that off culture land early on in the game. Besides, that way your armies can focus on defeating the military of the hordes, while your vassals seige the provinces for you.

 

[Zander]

OK, I've just read about the history of the Golder Horde in Wikipedia and I am now completely sure that the horde mechanic is a complete misunderstanding in this case. GH was not conquering territory after 1399, and while it subjugated (demanded tribute from) Russian principalities, most of the time it was an area of internal conflict. In other words, GH in EU3 should use most of its army strength on fighting pretender and "nationalist" (Kazan, Crimea, etc.) rebels.

The big issue I have with the GH is that it doesn't have enough tendency to fall apart. The Timurids in EU have all sorts of nationalist and even religious strife that makes instability dangerous for them... but the Golden Horde has relatively little, so even with low stability and a succession crisis they're not likely to break up into substantially smaller nations/tribes.

 

[RedRalphWiggum]

Odd, in the 30 Mar patch, I played Muscowy and GH never accepted any tribute I offered. Never. Not even after GH has overrun all of my provinces.

I got this as Karaman vs the Timiruds.

 

[Ryuujin95]

The big issue I have with the GH is that it doesn't have enough tendency to fall apart. The Timurids in EU have all sorts of nationalist and even religious strife that makes instability dangerous for them... but the Golden Horde has relatively little, so even with low stability and a succession crisis they're not likely to break up into substantially smaller nations/tribes.

The big problem is that the Golden Horde can't follow their historical path due to game mechanics. Kazan, Crimea, and Astrakhan are all Tartar culture nations, so you won't see Nationalist rebels for any of those three appear in GH controlled territorry. They just get particularists, peasants, and pretenders in Tartar provinces. It's also why seeing any of those three (or even Shaybanid) appear is rather rare, while revolters like Ukraine, Polotsk, or Zaporozhie show up fairly often. Perhaps same culture Nationalist rebels should be allowed for Horde nations. Should make their succession crisises a bit more interesting.

 

[th3freakie]

The big problem is that the Golden Horde can't follow their historical path due to game mechanics. Kazan, Crimea, and Astrakhan are all Tartar culture nations, so you won't see Nationalist rebels for any of those three appear in GH controlled territorry. They just get particularists, peasants, and pretenders in Tartar provinces. It's also why seeing any of those three (or even Shaybanid) appear is rather rare, while revolters like Ukraine, Polotsk, or Zaporozhie show up fairly often. Perhaps same culture Nationalist rebels should be allowed for Horde nations. Should make their succession crisises a bit more interesting.

A fine point. The Horde needs to be able to break up, not just be colonized by Poland/Austria/Bohemia.

 

[Nefaro]

A fine point. The Horde needs to be able to break up, not just be colonized by Poland/Austria/Bohemia.

What about an event that would release the core nations inside the steppe nomad ones after a certain date? Possible?

 

[RedRalphWiggum]

What about an event that would release the core nations inside the steppe nomad ones after a certain date? Possible?

I wouldn't be wild about an event that just released them, that's a tad too deterministic for me, but some events to make it more likely that the GH will collapse would be good. there was plenty suggested in the Paradox Needs You thread, so I'd expect at least one to make its way into the next few patches.

 

[th3freakie]

In my lack of coding skills, it sounds easier and more in tune with Pdox's new game philosophy (cursed be it and all it's 3d children) to just take Ryuujin95's suggestion of making Hordes and exception.

 

[unmerged(288807)]

What about an event that would release the core nations inside the steppe nomad ones after a certain date? Possible?

Yes it would be possible. But it would sux since it would be way too predetermined. The charm of the game is its randomness.

 

[th3freakie]

Yes it would be possible. But it would sux since it would be way too predetermined. The charm of the game is its randomness.

I disagree with the principle, but also with the implementation. The only random thing about the GH now is who gets to colonize it all.

 

[unmerged(128725)]

What about releasing a nation every time that, in a TSC, a pretender rebel army seize its historical capital?

Example: a GH pretender army seizes Zaporotzie the province, and the country immediately declares independence.

This would be equivalent as the pretender seizing the smaller country first, and going for the mothercountry afterwards.

 

[BonSequitur]

Right now, I think that the GH has too easy a time of overrunning Eastern European minors like Wallachia. As Hungary or Poland or Muscovy, your entire early game revolves around them (In the same way that western HRE powers' early game revolves around France) when historically, it really shouldn't.

 

[DanubianCossak]

In my personal mod (MPM in my signature) i have created a bunch of cultures that split off from Tartars (primary culture for Golden Horde).

First you have Nogai Tartars - who are related to Nogai horde. (from what i understand, in 1399. Nogai, Khazaks, Sibir etc should ALL be part of Golden Horde, not sure why its done differently in EU3, my guess is that someone forgot to unify GH when they moved start date a bit back in one of the expansions)

Then we got Astrakhani Tartars - who should form Astrakhan, a local power that lasted a while (they get areas around COT province of Astrakhan).

Crimean Tartars - who are living along the "wild grasslands" in what is today's Ukrainian sea border, they are supposed to create Crimean Khanate, a powerful local state that had a lot to do with histories of Poland, Lithuania, Sich and Russia.

Volga Bolgars - people living roughly in what is today a federal state within Russian Federation called Republic of Tartarstan (IIRC). They should form Kazan.

Siberian people - they are supposed to from Siberian Khanate, state that also had quite some historical impact on development of Russia and their expansion to the east. (edit - loks like this one is in vanilla nvm)

When it comes to Ruthenians, i have deleted Ukraine, as that country has nothing to do with history of EU3 (IIRC first time it was created was 20th century as one of the Soviet Republics during/after the revolution or something along those lines). Instead, Ruthenians living in Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth have cores belonging to Haligh-Volhyania (sp?) a historic local administrative "state" while those Ruthenians who live in areas bordering Russian lands (bellow Chernigov, around Kiev and along Crimean provinces) have cores belonging to what is called "Zaporozhie" in Vanilla (i changed it to Sich).

Point is, all these additional cultures do make GH fall apart most often historically.