Beta of 1.3 - 17th March 2011 - Discussion Thread

[Minchandre]

Playing as the US, it is 1856 I am always told that "A coalition of Conservative and Reactionary parties took 100% of the vote" despite voters being majority Liberal. Kind of hard to have a civil war when the liberals never get a single vote in each election.

This is a combination of two issues:
-First, POPs vote in Lower House elections by issues and not ideology. So, if a Liberal POP nevertheless favors Interventionism, they'll vote Democrat. Ideology dictates how POPs vote in the Upper House only.
-Second, First Past the Post means that the winning party always wins with 100%. You could have 49.8% of people vote Republican or Whig, and you'll still be told that "A coalition of Conservative and Reactionary parties took 100% of the vote". The other two systems will display actual smaller numbers (though the one that isn't Proportional - Jeffersonian, I think? - will still inflate the winning party's share)

 

[AlknicTeos]

after starting this beta with greece now until 1867 I must say wow . The economy feels far better so far, especially because of the increase of power technology. The change isn't mentioned at the patch log or ?
But may distribute the advantages to some more technologies. When nothing has been changed at metallurgy and or economy tech's - may could be there the one or other improvement.

Russia developed weaker than in previous version and has now 280 ind score and #8 . Is it just random or what did the change and why didn't it also count for austria the #3 with 1000 ind score. something betwenn for both would be nice and then NGF would be #3 with 800 ind score. And france was quite fast #1 and has 2800 ind score, 900 more than UK. May france is a little bit too strong - But let's see , UK has begun with the first state in India and may NGF is willing to become germany. But till now it still feel quite good.

As Greece the war capacity at begin is rather worse but through early conquest of tunis and later 2 regions of algier ( faster than france ^^ ) and in the 50's some parts of egypt and in the 60's my cores on ottomans I still have rather low national population but prestige #6 what allows me in face of low industrial and being in sphere of france to supply my population far better with goods as expected. And the "classical" short goods seems to me aren't anymore - so the lowest needs seems can be supplied. I think it has been become better ( due the better power tech ? ) , but ^^ ( yes there is always a but ), my 2M adult male population has 3,57M on the national bank and lacks of second tier needs like furniture and cloth ( especially because france takes it ), but they have lux demand very often fullfilled. The bad is that the second tier without furniture and cloth isn't giving 90% for promotion bonus and so. But the stupid is for example farmers also need furniture for luxury need, where they have 100% but everyday they don't. .. Well - that's one experience with greece the first 30y.

Oh and god bless my general with attack 4 and some other nice attributes. They can change a war

 

[gibbel]

This is a combination of two issues:
-First, POPs vote in Lower House elections by issues and not ideology. So, if a Liberal POP nevertheless favors Interventionism, they'll vote Democrat. Ideology dictates how POPs vote in the Upper House only.
-Second, First Past the Post means that the winning party always wins with 100%. You could have 49.8% of people vote Republican or Whig, and you'll still be told that "A coalition of Conservative and Reactionary parties took 100% of the vote". The other two systems will display actual smaller numbers (though the one that isn't Proportional - Jeffersonian, I think? - will still inflate the winning party's share)

Shuld first past the post only give all votes in one state to the winning party? The way it is now it's basically ruling party only because they always win with 100%. I tried this as Japan. No matter what party was in power they always got 100% in the next election.

 

[Mammoet]

I really really don't think this is a problem. I've just had the smoothest economic experience I've ever had in Vicky II with the reduced supply of precious metals thanks to this.

It is a problem, not because of the economy, which certainly is the best ever at the moment. It is a problem because the labourers are unemployed half the time, which can lead to unwanted sideffects and even if it didn't its still not working as it is meant to. There should be some kind of demand or something else that keeps the labourers working in the mines. Maybe not all of them, but they shouldn't be empty.


I think the game is really gettint somewhere with the wonderful economy and all, but somehow I feel that the industrial score is a bit high compared to the presige and militairy score.

Also 1 ship fleets do not get admirals assigned to them, is this how it is supposed to work or not?

Other then that I think the game is in really good shape at the moment! (although I did have some tea shortage at some point in the late 1800s last night)

 

[kaspar42]

There is still a problem with pops getting to buy goods before the government, making it impossible to build up stockpiles with certain goods, e.g. luxury clothing.
Even worse, if you look at the SS below, I should have enough liquor production to meet the demands of both my military and population, but I still can't supply my armies with liquor. The only explanation I can see, is that other countries pops gets to buy before my military!

 

[Tormodius]

It is a problem, not because of the economy, which certainly is the best ever at the moment. It is a problem because the labourers are unemployed half the time, which can lead to unwanted sideffects and even if it didn't its still not working as it is meant to. There should be some kind of demand or something else that keeps the labourers working in the mines. Maybe not all of them, but they shouldn't be empty.


I think the game is really gettint somewhere with the wonderful economy and all, but somehow I feel that the industrial score is a bit high compared to the presige and militairy score.

Also 1 ship fleets do not get admirals assigned to them, is this how it is supposed to work or not?

Other then that I think the game is in really good shape at the moment! (although I did have some tea shortage at some point in the late 1800s last night)

You are right, the RGO business was not during any era driven totally out of their business. For farming, the decline in labour is reflected well from original game design, by lowering cap of farm employment due to agricultural industrialization. This is a plausible and a historical thing, and worked part of the time (for countries that had full employment in RGOs from 1836 start it worked, but no effect for those half-employed ones)

Comparative advantages means that businesses have some traits to them, that can give them an upper hand in competition. This theory workes for some businesses, especiallty financial type, brands and such, but not typically for RGOs in a resource based economy! And that is what we have problems with here!

There would be local needs for the natural resources for example mining. It's not a branding business, and its not a business where for example silver produced in a specific mine is in higher demand, but from the other mine their "bad-reputation crappy silver" would be in less demand. Not like that, but instead a more perfect competition model existed irl, allthough not all perfect as in the liberal definitions. That should be possible to simulate with the current game design, but its not working now.

Same for food. Wine grapes is a different story! And even wine grapes are grown and sold in crappy orchards. Still some people work there and make low quality wine for cheap sale. But for game simplification, RGOs would be equal anyway. Thats ok, so a grape is a grape wherever on the planet.

If the world was in high demand the RGO business would increase in numbers as levels or people employed ingame, and decrease as per industrialization tech increase such as we already have in the game. But the total emptying of a mine due to world market competition is just non-plausible! It's one of the silliest things i have seen in this game so far. It does not belong in such a great game! If it ever happened in history, it was an exception, for example imperial decrees or whatnot.

 

[Phalanxia]

I really hate it. Provinces emptying as if a nuclear plant blew up, which is just making a mockery of the migration model and ruins immersion. I'm having some ugly deja vu's from Vic1 here, that also contained unsightly crutches to support game mechanism. I really hope it gets seriously nerfed, even if it comes at the expense of a less than fluid market.

What exactly are you raging against?

Am I supposed to be able to do a 'Free People of Prussia' wargoal on West Switzerland?

Yes, as Prussia has a core on Neuchatel. This is WAD.

It is a problem, not because of the economy, which certainly is the best ever at the moment. It is a problem because the labourers are unemployed half the time, which can lead to unwanted sideffects and even if it didn't its still not working as it is meant to. There should be some kind of demand or something else that keeps the labourers working in the mines. Maybe not all of them, but they shouldn't be empty.

Other than in precious metal mines, I'm not finding labourers to be unemployed at all, it's just the RGOs are now absolutely huge.

 

[The Starfox]

Perhaps having the rich pops demand gold as a luxury item would help with the gold mine problem? Would certainly generate the needed demand.

 

[nestorius]

This is a combination of two issues:
-First, POPs vote in Lower House elections by issues and not ideology. So, if a Liberal POP nevertheless favors Interventionism, they'll vote Democrat. Ideology dictates how POPs vote in the Upper House only.
-Second, First Past the Post means that the winning party always wins with 100%. You could have 49.8% of people vote Republican or Whig, and you'll still be told that "A coalition of Conservative and Reactionary parties took 100% of the vote". The other two systems will display actual smaller numbers (though the one that isn't Proportional - Jeffersonian, I think? - will still inflate the winning party's share)

This is not true at least not in the beta before this or in any other vicky versions. I have had democrats winning most of my elections but apart from 1 or 2 they dont have 100%. fptp does not automatically give 100% nor does it do it most of the time, please try it just start a USA game and let the game run for a bit.

 

[Sayd]

Perhaps having the rich pops demand gold as a luxury item would help with the gold mine problem? Would certainly generate the needed demand.

Or make precious metall as raw material for luxury_clothes and luxury_furniture industry.

 

[unmerged(145488)]

The bug, where if you colonize the remaining provinces in a region where a some of the provinces are already a state it causes the entire state to revert to a colony, is still there.

 

[quetzilla]

The bug, where if you colonize the remaining provinces in a region where a some of the provinces are already a state it causes the entire state to revert to a colony, is still there.

Yes, this bug is really annoying - thwarts my plan for Chile to colonize the Pacific via Easter Island because it converts one of my core states back to a colony .

I'm not sure how to resolve the bug though, as colony status is at the state level, so the only alternative is to make colony's founded in states that are already full states to jump straight to state status. Maybe there could be a colonial modifier on the province level to simulate colony-ness? If not, skipping colony status in this case seems like the most reasonable solution, as the current method just causes headaches for legit gameplay.

 

[Jadelith]

1900+ military sizes need a nerf

my OC'd i7 960 + 6gb ram is having real problems with the game (2 days/sec at best, sometimes 0.5 days/sec). probably because britain has a 5000 military score. its not only britain though.. china, russia, france etc all have huge armies. the game might as well end in 1920, as after that, it becomes unplayable (with my rig, which is as high end as it could get without a 990x or something)

 

[Foxbyte]

Yes, this bug is really annoying - thwarts my plan for Chile to colonize the Pacific via Easter Island because it converts one of my core states back to a colony .

I'm not sure how to resolve the bug though, as colony status is at the state level, so the only alternative is to make colony's founded in states that are already full states to jump straight to state status. Maybe there could be a colonial modifier on the province level to simulate colony-ness? If not, skipping colony status in this case seems like the most reasonable solution, as the current method just causes headaches for legit gameplay.

Work on getting 1% bureaucrats in the state before colonizing the island? Or edit the save to turn the colony back into a state?

I remember my games as Liberia and Hawaii were messed up by this bug too. Especially Hawaii, for a while I had no states at all; 0% literacy, and no one could vote in the upper house at all.

 

[quetzilla]

1900+ military sizes need a nerf

my OC'd i7 960 + 6gb ram is having real problems with the game (2 days/sec at best, sometimes 0.5 days/sec). probably because britain has a 5000 military score. its not only britain though.. china, russia, france etc all have huge armies. the game might as well end in 1920, as after that, it becomes unplayable (with my rig, which is as high end as it could get without a 990x or something)

Hah, in one of my recent games Britain was up to 11000 military score! But seriously, is 2 days per second so bad? I'm playing on an old E8600 with 2GB ram, but I don't find it 'unplayable', at least with this beta. 1.2 was pretty bad, but there has been a lot of improvement.

Work on getting 1% bureaucrats in the state before colonizing the island? Or edit the save to turn the colony back into a state?

I remember my games as Liberia and Hawaii were messed up by this bug too. Especially Hawaii, for a while I had no states at all; 0% literacy, and no one could vote in the upper house at all.

I was at like 0.97%. I would have continued but a new beta came out .

 

[Alyosha]

I'm still seeing military issues dominate POPs voting preferences. POPs rank all four military issues (Jingoism, Pro-Military, Anti-Military, and Pacifism) before any other issue, regardless of military maintenance.

 

[Minchandre]

This is not true at least not in the beta before this or in any other vicky versions. I have had democrats winning most of my elections but apart from 1 or 2 they dont have 100%. fptp does not automatically give 100% nor does it do it most of the time, please try it just start a USA game and let the game run for a bit.

Shuld first past the post only give all votes in one state to the winning party? The way it is now it's basically ruling party only because they always win with 100%. I tried this as Japan. No matter what party was in power they always got 100% in the next election.

I have played multiple USA games across all patches (in fact, USA is my favorite country to play) and over dozens of elections I've had the winning coalition always get 100%. Maybe it's just a coincidence. Maybe FPTP just often creates 100% ruling parties.

 

[gibbel]

I have played multiple USA games across all patches (in fact, USA is my favorite country to play) and over dozens of elections I've had the winning coalition always get 100%. Maybe it's just a coincidence. Maybe FPTP just often creates 100% ruling parties.

I also like to play as the US and it's only after the last beta that I had only 100% elections. I haven't played the US yet in the latest beta but as Japan no matter if I had the Conservatives or the Imperialists in power, the ruling party always got reelected with 100%. I guess I will have to try the US now^^.

 

[unmerged(145488)]

I'm not sure how to resolve the bug though, as colony status is at the state level, so the only alternative is to make colony's founded in states that are already full states to jump straight to state status. Maybe there could be a colonial modifier on the province level to simulate colony-ness? If not, skipping colony status in this case seems like the most reasonable solution, as the current method just causes headaches for legit gameplay.

It already skips colony status if you conquer the rest of a state where you already own provinces from an uncivilized nation, so I think it should work the same way when colonizing.

 

[Alerias]

I havent played V2 in awhile so this may in fact be a 1.2 rather than new change, but Im finding my sphere members quite reluctant to fall in line in this version. They frequently refuse to Ally me, even if we have no truce ongoing, and even when they do they frequently betray my alliances when going to war. IIRC they used to behave more like EU3 vassals, always falling in line, which seemed to be more logical given how much work it can be to keep a spheree within your influence.

Was this an intended change?

Also, I concur with the Liquor issue posted above. I have three liquor factories producing a good output and yet i have trouble building artillery or the other regiments that require it. Manually controlling trade doesnt help, even though I have high prestige too. (#2, OE)