Beta of 1.3 - 17th March 2011 - Discussion Thread

[Duke of Bavaria]

Ok , so here are the impressions of my first game: I was doing mighty fine wih Bavaria: I was technological so advanced i had to research nearly all navy ideas which i dont need to research something, 100% literacy, a few nobel prices, i had endless money (a few million, how much ever i wanted, because at some point i can always only fulfull the needs of my pop to a certain degree (yellow) 100% and not more and it doesnt matter how much tax i take, with economy running well (had about a 10 rating 5 or more factory in every province , all railroads) my only option was to get the taxes up as no one complained anyway , when i had 10 million i made my state a paradise monarchy with no taxes and all social expenses and reforms. I even managed to annex Western switzerland which gave me a need economical boom and 2 million inhabitans overall. So i guess with the new patch the economy might run too good somehow. Also if someone can tell me why i never get to fulfill the luxury needs at some point it would be helpful. No taxes and shooting everything in negative tariffs doesnt help. Is it because i am only 10th in prestige? Should i do my trading per hand and keep all luxury goods in the country? Dont know what causes this , i am rather noobish in Vicky2. Ohh my game ended in 1919 by the way because Austria ran over the North German Federation totally and decided it wanted a North German Federation and a South german federation...sadly Bavaria wasnt asked at all if it wanted that too and had no way out... :-(

 

[Sir Garnet]

puerto guaraní, fortín falcón, xolotas and formosa are territories of Paraguay at that time (1836). Please, fix this borders

Before talking about the actual geography, first consider that the current borders serve to encourage the neighbors to pile on to Bolivia rather than Paraguay, which can stay out or join in to war when it is ready. Also, they keep the contested state intact.

Paraguay as shown in V2 is consistent with a circa 1830 contemporary map I found from a travel guidebook http://www.zum.de/whkmla/histatlas/samerica/sam1830.gif and this political map from a US text http://www.davidrumsey.com/maps1120244-28112.html for 1830 where Paraguay does not even appear - it is folded into Brazil. That actually makes some sense, since it could have been reported as a sort of reclusive feudal domain in Brazil as it operated much that way, as well as being aggressively isolationist and cut itself off from world commerce and culture.

You can see how far east the Bolivian border pushes, and the straight lines drawn for what was an unsettled and later disputed border. I'm sure there are other maps made by people with an interest that show a maximum or minimum extent for Paraguay, but I think the sources of the above had no interest but to provide a map of whatever was there.

Here is a modern map depicting the various frontier changes of Paraguay over history and which slices of the areas claimed went to which neighboring country. Note north is in approximately the upper left corner.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Historia_de_la_frontera_Paraguaya.JPG

Discussing the west and V2's map, it looks to me like the maximum extent of borders claimed by Paraguay include what is most of Formosa in game but not Xolotas, most of Fortin Falcon and a large chunk of Puerto Guarani, which looks larger in game.

Note that in the east Posadas should have a Paraguayan as well as Argentinian core. I don't know what Paraguayan events are, but I hope they are there to support the imperial ambitions actually attempted in the 1860s.

 

[FelixCress]

Talk about it here, get it from http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?526892-Beta-of-1.3-17th-March-2011



- Back to a supply/demand pricing model.

Will King make an apology to the modders? He ought to.

 

[tyrel68]

Will King make an apology to the modders? He ought to.

Um its a beta, generally its a hit and miss type thing that if its done right, is hard to predict. If they didnt do weird things and try everything then they arent doing their jobs. I am happy that they are willing to try fundamental changes like that. Remember it can all be changed in the next patch, its not set in stone.

 

[quetzilla]

Before talking about the actual geography, first consider that the current borders serve to encourage the neighbors to pile on to Bolivia rather than Paraguay, which can stay out or join in to war when it is ready. Also, they keep the contested state intact.

*snip*

Here is another map, dated to 1836 exactly:

http://info.reed.edu/library/maps.taf?function=detail2&SingleEntry_uid1=11.0

This one basically shows Paraguay with the in game borders, although that one still has Gran Columbia united, and Bolivia's borders are a bit different from V2's version. One thing to keep in mind is that the areas we're talking about are basically in the deep jungle in the center of South America, and mapping that kind of terrain in 1836 was no small feat.

 

[quetzilla]

One of those is the estimate for the next day, while the other shows actual income of the day.

This doesn't explain why it's consistently off by 4 money every day consistently (or more if you're playing a country with a larger income). What's more is that the math for expenses doesn't add up. Just take a look at the costs for Military Supplies (not Spending) and Overseas Colonies, add those together, and you'll see it's more than what the budget window shows for National Stockpile purchase costs.

 

[heliostellar]

Regarding super-long colonization times... Assuming they have no intent to bring back the troops-hasten-colonization feature, Im curious, is the length it takes to colonize a region moddable anywhere? Thanks!

It's not in defines.lua...

 

[Secret Master]

Ok, it looks like buying priorities are still wrong. The government still cannot buy the goods produced by its own POPs before those goods are sold to another party (either POPs or other countries in SOI).

Consider fuel first. If you look at the first screenie, you can see that Japan need 263 fuel a day, but is only able to purchase 50.

And what is our production?

I can't see it as being plainer than this. The government is simply not getting resources because civilian POPs are consuming them first. The fuel is not leaving my SOI, and I have the largest prestige in my SOI anyway (so if another country is getting it first, then it's also wrong).

BTW, if you look at information for planes, you can see we need more planes, and yet we produce 44 a day in my SOI. I'm not getting those either. This is a goofy problem that needs addressing. It affects the building of guards, armor, aircraft, dreadnoughts, cruisers, and even artillery in the early game.

 

[Phalanxia]

I'm getting a weird problem with province sizes increasing. For example, Rome starts out with province size 9, so 40K x9 for maximum number of workers. By 1850 Rome's province size has somehow become 39, which is room for 1.45 million workers. In just that one province! This is happening for all of my provinces. Not sure what to make of it.

Yeah this has happened for me as well.

I tried a game, and all the provinces which switch to precious metals have the same problem. The RGO fires everyone (not at once though) and once it becomes empty it hires everyone back (at once). Then the firing starts again and this doesn't seem to stop. I checked both in Mexico and Transvaal.

I really really don't think this is a problem. I've just had the smoothest economic experience I've ever had in Vicky II with the reduced supply of precious metals thanks to this.

Economy seems fixed, and pop's moving around is just great. BUT, the choice of destination for the moving pop's may need a little tweaking. An example is Austria. South germans are slowly flooding hungarian, serbian lands etc. Perhaps they should wan't to go to provinces mainly inhabited by their own culture more than they do now.

Austria is like a salad now, with ethnicities all over the place. That said, I think that's an acceptable price to pay for more flexible labour. If anything needs correcting in Austria, it is still the too high South German assimilation rates.

Do nationalist rebels work differently, now?

They're supposed to have an area of operations of "nation_culture", which (I assume) is supposed to be provinces in their nation of origin which also have their primary culture. Yet I'm regularly seeing them wander into other areas. Just last night (with the latest beta) after Netherlands annexed Belgium I saw Flemish rebels wander into Dutch territory even though there were Flemish provinces still untouched with no Dutch troops in them.

It could be I'm only noticing it now, I suppose, but I'm noticing it enough that I'm seeing it in several cases and I've never seen it before. Anyone else seeing the same thing?

I saw this as well.

 

[Tormodius]

Ok , so here are the impressions of my first game: I was doing mighty fine wih Bavaria: I was technological so advanced i had to research nearly all navy ideas which i dont need to research something, 100% literacy, a few nobel prices, i had endless money (a few million, how much ever i wanted, because at some point i can always only fulfull the needs of my pop to a certain degree (yellow) 100% and not more and it doesnt matter how much tax i take, with economy running well (had about a 10 rating 5 or more factory in every province , all railroads) my only option was to get the taxes up as no one complained anyway , when i had 10 million i made my state a paradise monarchy with no taxes and all social expenses and reforms. I even managed to annex Western switzerland which gave me a need economical boom and 2 million inhabitans overall. So i guess with the new patch the economy might run too good somehow. Also if someone can tell me why i never get to fulfill the luxury needs at some point it would be helpful. No taxes and shooting everything in negative tariffs doesnt help. Is it because i am only 10th in prestige? Should i do my trading per hand and keep all luxury goods in the country? Dont know what causes this , i am rather noobish in Vicky2. Ohh my game ended in 1919 by the way because Austria ran over the North German Federation totally and decided it wanted a North German Federation and a South german federation...sadly Bavaria wasnt asked at all if it wanted that too and had no way out... :-(

Oh, sounds like you had some fun, but then just one event ruins it. This should really be modded, so that Bavaria can at least go to war over its independence if such an event triggers. The reason why Bavaria peacefully joined Germany historically was that the powerful people there also got influence in the newly formed nation. If Bismarck had just said "Game Over" to Bavarian nobles, like this game does, they would probably not have joined volunteerly, but prepared for war instead. An alternative is that game is changed, similar to the switch-to-play-vassal thing, so that you can just continue the game at least as the newly formed nation!

 

[heliostellar]

It's nearly impossible to knock Austria out of the GP club. I'm playing Prussia and trying to line this up right so that I can swallow up Austria when I enact Three Hurrahs. Their Industry rating keeps them in the GP club. Is this WAD? I've taken Bohemia and Moravia from them but they are mass industrializing everywhere. The economy generally seems more balanced, but now it seems like industrialization is too easy.

 

[Phalanxia]

It would appear to be WAD - the idea of Prussia gobbling up the entire Hapsburg Empire is not meant to be something that is even just hard, but borderline impossible.

 

[heliostellar]

Probably for the best. Grossdeutschland was quite controversial in history IRL, so I guess it should be difficult to create in the game too.

 

[ShoGuL]

I must admit that I was sceptical when I started a game as Japan earlier today (I like Japan for testing out new beta patches ^^) -- my first thought was 'woah, this is bugged!' but I found myself pleasantly surprised after playing a while.

Alright, my observations.. in the first couple of decades, I thought it was incredibly bugged.. I literally lost 2 million of my population (was down below 6 million!) as they moved about trying to find profitable work (had several million move to Hokkaido at one point.. was like woa oO) but eventually they settled, surprisingly in almost historical locations (will be even more so once Precious Metal is fixed.. Kobe is completely empty) -- Osaka was my most populous state (~1.6 million), followed by Fukuoka (~1.4 million) and then Edo, Nagoya, Yamaguchi (~1.2 million) almost equal in population, with Aomori and Shumshu as my least populous states (800k and 600k).

I dont recall that I used to actually lose population as they moved about internally, but perhaps I just havent noticed it because it used to be fewer numbers.. it seemed like they disappeared and then appeared again some 6 months later.

I didnt have any shortages while playing, at all, everything available on the market. I was surprised by how different the industrialization game felt -- I used to not have any trouble at all skyrocketing into Great Power status in a couple of years after westernizing as Japan, but this time it took several decades -- most of the world industrialized much faster than they used to.. imagine my surprise when I hit 500 industrial score and it told me I was still ranked 15+ in industry!

A few screenshots I thought noteworthy..

The CSA not only survived -- they existed alongside the USA and surpassed them in score in the later years!!

The score a couple of years later.

And when I called it a night.

 

[Colon]

I really hate it. Provinces emptying as if a nuclear plant blew up, which is just making a mockery of the migration model and ruins immersion. I'm having some ugly deja vu's from Vic1 here, that also contained unsightly crutches to support game mechanism. I really hope it gets seriously nerfed, even if it comes at the expense of a less than fluid market.

 

[Foxbyte]

Am I supposed to be able to do a 'Free People of Prussia' wargoal on West Switzerland?

 

[Sir Garnet]

Probably for the best. Grossdeutschland was quite controversial in history IRL, so I guess it should be difficult to create in the game too.

Under the august Habsburgs, it might have been possible - under those upstart Hohenzollerns, absurd!

 

[Ex Mudder]

Playing as the US, it is 1856 I am always told that "A coalition of Conservative and Reactionary parties took 100% of the vote" despite voters being majority Liberal. Kind of hard to have a civil war when the liberals never get a single vote in each election.

Education really creeps upward slowly, as does RP generation, despite 100% funding.

Economy seems stable though.

 

[Freebot]

Playing as the US, it is 1856 I am always told that "A coalition of Conservative and Reactionary parties took 100% of the vote" despite voters being majority Liberal. Kind of hard to have a civil war when the liberals never get a single vote in each election.

Education really creeps upward slowly, as does RP generation, despite 100% funding.

Economy seems stable though.

You just need 40% liberals in the upper house and for Dred Scott and John Brown's Raid to fire. I.e. 6+ consciousness in a free state and 5+ in a slave state. MTTH drops down after 1860. I play the civil war with the Democrats in power all the time. :wacko:

 

[tyrel68]

Thats easy, if you had universal voting then your desc would be correct but 10 bucks you dont which skews the party choice against popular opinion