Beta of 1.3 - 17th March 2011 - Discussion Thread

[Old Joe]

that immigration is still very strange! civilizing china in 1850 now I have from starting 100millons of workforce only 67millions left!!! and i dont know how many that is in total amount. Probably more then 100 million people in 14 years goes away from china?? its just bugged i spose. because i experienced that if playing without reloading(like johan played i think) those shady millions of immigrants just returning after a while, not all of them still, but if to make one save and then exit and reloads those millions are just lost

 

[RedRalphWiggum]

Could you please bugreport that with savegames if possible, Old Joe?

 

[Zarine]

Could you please bugreport that with savegames if possible, Old Joe?

You really need a savegame for the population leak ?
I can do a full movie showing that population dissapear somewhere...
I know it does for France at least. Start game, full speed ahead and population decline like ice melting in the Sahara.

 

[RedRalphWiggum]

You really need a savegame for the population leak ?
I can do a full movie showing that population dissapear somewhere...
I know it does for France at least. Start game, full speed ahead and population decline like ice melting in the Sahara.

One specifically showing this would be helpful I think though maybe the devs would disagree. Can't do any harm anyway. In my present game as Austria I'm not seeing it at all.

 

[Jawa]

One specifically showing this would be helpful I think though maybe the devs would disagree. Can't do any harm anyway. In my present game as Austria I'm not seeing it at all.

Do a hands off game with China until 1870 and you'll se it for yourself. It always happens. It's propably also present in your current Austria game. Take a look at some of the bigger nations in Asia and compare the size of their populations to that in 1836.

 

[Zarine]

Tonight I'll do one run and find a way to make it available.
It might be linked to specific coutry as few people reported the problem :
China (spotted by Talq (p10), Old Joe (p13) )
Belgium (spotted by Swuboo (p12) )
France (myself)

From Swuboo :
"I've just started a game as Chile. My starting population in 1836 was 270k. It's now 1840 and my population is 400k. Four years ago my population was 96% South Andean and 4% Patagonian. Now it's 70% South Andean, 16% French, 4% North German, 3% Irish, and 4% Patagonian. Roughly."

"Regardless, with Chile my population as of Jan 1, 1846 is 744k. It's nearly tripled in just a decade. That can't be right. "


If I mix his game with Chile and mine, it makes sens as French population emmigrate a lot but when I mean a lot, it's a lot...
16% french in Chile of 400k = 64k in one country, in 4 years when the population of France can hardly make +2k/year.
If you consider all american countries, France would see all its population go away.

 

[quetzilla]

In my game as Chile I had about 1.7m by 1866. It's pretty bonkers. As I said earlier, the issue isn't population weirdness, it's a side effect of RGO's firing workers if they overproduce.

 

[vegetassj2345]

i can't download the patch.The winrar archive is incomplete.Why?

 

[Alerias]

i can't download the patch.The winrar archive is incomplete.Why?

Happens often for me with Paradox downloads (and only these). Just restart the download, itll finish correctly after a try or two.

 

[Innocent Beard]

Tonight I'll do one run and find a way to make it available.
It might be linked to specific coutry as few people reported the problem :
China (spotted by Talq (p10), Old Joe (p13) )
Belgium (spotted by Swuboo (p12) )
France (myself)

From Swuboo :
"I've just started a game as Chile. My starting population in 1836 was 270k. It's now 1840 and my population is 400k. Four years ago my population was 96% South Andean and 4% Patagonian. Now it's 70% South Andean, 16% French, 4% North German, 3% Irish, and 4% Patagonian. Roughly."

"Regardless, with Chile my population as of Jan 1, 1846 is 744k. It's nearly tripled in just a decade. That can't be right. "


If I mix his game with Chile and mine, it makes sens as French population emmigrate a lot but when I mean a lot, it's a lot...
16% french in Chile of 400k = 64k in one country, in 4 years when the population of France can hardly make +2k/year.
If you consider all american countries, France would see all its population go away.

Perhaps you're correct and it's simply emmigration from civilized countries to the West causing this issue. For example, My Haiti game went from 0% foreign immigrants with a total population of ~150K to 3% British 3% French 3% Tamil in a matter of a month after the democracy kicked in. So that's bout 3-4K British, 3-4K French and 3-4K Tamil immigrants just in the beginning months.

However, this does not explain why certain people report that saving and reloading gets rid of the problem.
So I think something else is also involved.

 

[Old Joe]

Could you please bugreport that with savegames if possible, Old Joe?

well, i was playing not on clean 17march beta

i'v made gold tradable and luxury needs for aristocrats and caps, as here someone suggested. 5 and 3 on demands. and for officers also - 0.2 heh

but in clean last beta i'v seen almost the same situation

here's screen:

Spoiler

you see - 64millions
i dont know how to put this more

Spoiler

so here is usual daily imigration decline, already after i got civilized, and also my aristocrats wanting precious metals

 

[safferli]

i can't download the patch.The winrar archive is incomplete.Why?

Happens often for me with Paradox downloads (and only these). Just restart the download, itll finish correctly after a try or two.

It's a corrupted download. The forum is under strains currently, and the hardware will get an upgrade on Monday. Until then, try to download it again until it's complete!

 

[Yaromir]

Although tea as a 'life need' sounds odd, I can think of quite a good reason that might explain why the devs thought to make it one. Tea - specifically tannin, I think it is - has a marked anti-bacterial effect in the gut; the beginning of the supply of tea to burgeoning cities during the industrial revolution reduced significantly the death rates from gastro-intestinal sickness. Tea may have been classified as a "life need" in order to model this effect on population growth and happiness.

That's a valid point, however, only a handful of pop-types require it as a life need. As reported above, tea shortage causes clergy population to demote.
Alternatively rules could edited that demotion occurs when pops receive <90% (not 100%). Or the shortages need to be figured out (difficult in the game of such complexity to say the least)

 

[stamasd]

Although tea as a 'life need' sounds odd, I can think of quite a good reason that might explain why the devs thought to make it one. Tea - specifically tannin, I think it is - has a marked anti-bacterial effect in the gut; the beginning of the supply of tea to burgeoning cities during the industrial revolution reduced significantly the death rates from gastro-intestinal sickness. Tea may have been classified as a "life need" in order to model this effect on population growth and happiness.

Sadly, the political effects caused by a lack of life needs don't really suit those from a lack of tea - particularly if the city drinking water cleanliness is sorted out, as it should be by the late 19th century.

Ahh, tea. Many things could be said about it.
Countries have been conquered and empires formed because of it. The whole British Raj was started because of tea trade. Well, tea and spices.
Wars have been fought because of it. The Opium wars were fought to open up the Chinese market to british opium. They needed to sell opium in order to get silver. They needed the silver to buy tea.
Empires began being dismantled because of it too. See the Boston tea party.

Speaking of Boston and water cleanliness, beer was what was used early on as a safe alternative to drinking water. The British North American colonies were started where they were started instead of the Carolinas because the pilgrims on Mayflower ran out of beer early.

Perhaps the next patch should make beer a life need.

 

[ZearothK]

Not sure if this is a bug with the patch or the game in general, but I am quite sure this wasn't supposed to happen.

(Last beta, playing as Ireland released on day 1, Pan-British nationalists enforced their demands on South Africa)

 

[Avindian]

Into the 1880s as USA and thought I'd share some of my thoughts. The only shortage I noticed was liquor -- even at #3 in the world (and trying my damndest to encourage liquor) I'd often have to wait for a few days, even a couple of months, to build guards. Admittedly, I don't keep much of an eye on the economy, though. The shortage did seem to rectify itself in short order -- I suspect an unusual number of wars in the 1860s (ACW, UK-China, among others) drove demand up sky high. Speaking of the American Civil War, it was fantastic -- before this beta, I cut through the South like knife through butter in 90 days -- this version was much longer, and if the AI was just a touch smarter, it might have won. Like others have noticed, GPs tend to intervene a lot more -- I found it impossible to take Mexico in one war without the UK intervening. One thing I do find irritating (honestly, it's a great beta, and this is my one complaint) is my complete inability to make alliances with countries that aren't in my sphere. Because of this, I can't even attack Alaska (Russia and I had bad relations and Seward's Icebox failed -- a nice touch!) without France and UK intervening. It's like the entire world has joined a coalition to keep me from expanding.

I also noticed that my relations with GPs are plummeting, even when I don't DOW them (Russian Empire and France, for example). Do the influence options, like banning embassies, cause problems with relations?

The UK is #2 in the world, but has the biggest military score in the world -- once again, it chews through India and China like nobody's business.

Anyway, that's my two cents, and I am eager for the final patch. On the whole, great job Paradox!

 

[RedRalphWiggum]

ZearothK, if you could bugreport that with a savegame from before it happened it would be great.

 

[Innocent Beard]

Into the 1880s as USA and thought I'd share some of my thoughts. The only shortage I noticed was liquor -- even at #3 in the world (and trying my damndest to encourage liquor) I'd often have to wait for a few days, even a couple of months, to build guards. Admittedly, I don't keep much of an eye on the economy, though. The shortage did seem to rectify itself in short order -- I suspect an unusual number of wars in the 1860s (ACW, UK-China, among others) drove demand up sky high. Speaking of the American Civil War, it was fantastic -- before this beta, I cut through the South like knife through butter in 90 days -- this version was much longer, and if the AI was just a touch smarter, it might have won. Like others have noticed, GPs tend to intervene a lot more -- I found it impossible to take Mexico in one war without the UK intervening. One thing I do find irritating (honestly, it's a great beta, and this is my one complaint) is my complete inability to make alliances with countries that aren't in my sphere. Because of this, I can't even attack Alaska (Russia and I had bad relations and Seward's Icebox failed -- a nice touch!) without France and UK intervening. It's like the entire world has joined a coalition to keep me from expanding.

I also noticed that my relations with GPs are plummeting, even when I don't DOW them (Russian Empire and France, for example). Do the influence options, like banning embassies, cause problems with relations?

The UK is #2 in the world, but has the biggest military score in the world -- once again, it chews through India and China like nobody's business.

Anyway, that's my two cents, and I am eager for the final patch. On the whole, great job Paradox!

Quick notes before I post a more detailed report:
1) Yes the SOI game hurts your relations with GPs. Which I like.
2) Economy was overall very well behaved. Shortages/Oversupplies occurred but eventually figured themselves out. Which felt good.
3) UK is still a behemoth. Here's how: 1st few years, #1. Early 50s-70s #2 just behind FRA. 70s-90s #1 just ahead of FRA. But >90s, it statifies India & China (which it does still tend to eat up, but that's fine really, it's the statifying that is the problem). Once India & China are states, it skyrockets to #1 >>>>> #2.
4) Civil war was definitely an interesting affair. I was quite pleased with the CSA's work. They even took Missouri in a future war after surviving.

 

[unmerged(31299)]

I like this release, thanks for the hard work.

Issues in testing...

Confirming Secret master & Kaspar42, excess goods produced locally are not available to your government.

Playing as NGF trying to build guards in anticipation of a unification war on france. Guards not building as liquor requirements were dribbling in at 0.08 per day, while I'm trying to build 40 guards units. However, locally produced liquor is reported at
"need 1.45 for government"
"need 0 for producers"
"need 164.07 for pops"
"244.56 needed for economy",

Liquour trade is automatic, national stockpile and military spending are at maximum. I ought to have enough local daily production to build these units. It appears that the automated liquor trade is set to 1.45 - same as reported requirement for government, so maybe somehow it isn't seeing what the actual government demand ought to be - either that or high prestige countries are able to buy my liqour first. In any event, only 0.08 goes to production of units, not the 1.45.

Next issue.Diplomacy.

I gather that SOI was previously tamed to allow unification events, it wasn't much of a drama for me to unify. But, in preparing for a war on France, I wanted to remove some of the french spheres. France has let me remove Sardinia, Switzerland and Netherlands from their SOI and add to my soi without responding.

Feedback on Laisez Fairre/state capitalism etc. Working fine on several different tests. ie I haven't needed at the start of the game to switch to interventionist and build some preliminary factories to get it working, both state capitalism and Laisez Fairre are working fine from the very start as russia, prussia/ngf and brazil tests that I ran.

 

[quetzilla]

I also noticed that my relations with GPs are plummeting, even when I don't DOW them (Russian Empire and France, for example). Do the influence options, like banning embassies, cause problems with relations?

Yes.