Beta of 1.3 - 17th March 2011 - Discussion Thread

[Zarine]

my miltary score is displayed with -85 ranking me 84

I also have this bug but only after I changed some value for the units. Before the patch, with the same value I had no problem, but with the patch and my modded value (quite high in fact as I did more than doubled the maximum value) I always have this problem.
I also noted that going to war would restore the value to a "normal" one but almost like I didn't changed the value.
For instance, I would have -250 at peace and 100 at war when with 1.2 version I would have 1000+ with the same army and setting.

I thought it was linked to my moddification that were a bit too high, but if you don't modified anything, this is a bug.

 

[unmerged(171562)]

I'm still waiting for the game to get a bit *better* to buy it but I'm afraid I must wait for an expansion at this point.

Don't get me wrong the game is very nice I loved Victoria 1, just because I love the history of 19th Century.
There is however a problem that EU3/HoI/Vic have: military.
In Victoria 2 regiments are pop based and here is the "unfun":
1. when a pop get too low simply the regiments "attached" are destroyed - even if during WWI ethnical and neighbourhood groups of soldiers were create, simply if you have 40k Berliners you just don't destroy a division because you can't replenish the ranks with Berliners.
2. linked to the above, FAR TOO MANY CLICKS to create regiments that are easily destroyed. You should reconsider a recruitment system: you have manpower (as it were in Victoria) - if you're not at war you send them to boot camp - you buy weapons, artillery, planes, tanks (if you have planes and tanks) - when the boot camp is over you send them to ranks.
3. linked to point 2. Regiments should be created as "standards". Id est you create a regiment filling in officers - simulating the reality when you create barracks where soldiers one day will fit in and HQ where high rank officers fit in. Given manpower, time to finish the boot camp and weapons, you can fill up ranks in the ragiment.
4. this part is easily moddable in fact: reinforcement speed ! Even if you have 40k soldiers it's VERY VERY unlikely they can't fill up ranks in a month. An example? usually American Civil War is fought by 40k soldier in CSA and 120k soldiers in USA. Where are the more than two million people mobilized? And the 300-400k casualties?
5. I don't exactly have an idea with this point but stack penalties and attrition seems to be unrealistic. For example it's impossibile for 2 armies (42k soldiers per stack) getting across Munich territory and get a penalty of 10%. Almost 10k soldiers dies in crossing Munich ? What the ... ?

That's my opinion. The military part is the funnier thing in game, problem is it doesn't work.

 

[Aine]

idk if that has been posted before (probably has but I'm o lazy to read 10 pages )

my miltary score is displayed with -85 ranking me 84

How did you manage to form Greater Germany as Prussia? 0.o
Also i have no idea why its showing a negative MIL score

 

[Swuboo]

I'm having a small issue wherein whenever I click on a province it silently unpauses the game. I can select units, go to various interfaces, everything else. But selecting any province, whether mine or someone else's, instantly unpauses.

I didn't realize until I nearly lost a fleet to attrition while looking at RGO output levels.

17th March beta, Steam version, with a checksum of RFAV.

EDIT: It seems to have gone away on close and restart. I'll try to keep an eye on what I do vis-a-vis the interface so I'll know what causes it if it reappears.

 

[kaspar42]

Has the problem with AI nations sending mobilised troops against you as soon as they are created (without waiting for their organisation to reach an appropriate level) been solved?

They move them away from the borders immediately after they are mobilized, but the AI will often send low ORG units into combat.

 

[gadajs]

Also i have no idea why its showing a negative MIL score

Military score is stored as a numerical value, with an upper limit. Once you go above that number, it will cycle down to the minimum and start going up again. It's a very minor, though annoying bug.

 

[J-S]

I also have this bug but only after I changed some value for the units. Before the patch, with the same value I had no problem, but with the patch and my modded value (quite high in fact as I did more than doubled the maximum value) I always have this problem.
I also noted that going to war would restore the value to a "normal" one but almost like I didn't changed the value.
For instance, I would have -250 at peace and 100 at war when with 1.2 version I would have 1000+ with the same army and setting.

I thought it was linked to my moddification that were a bit too high, but if you don't modified anything, this is a bug.

I play without any mods at the moment but I noticed that it seems to be connected with military spending after I set the military spending higher again the score has gone back to normal

How did you manage to form Greater Germany as Prussia? 0.o
Also i have no idea why its showing a negative MIL score

With the new patch I think it is way easier just weaken Austria enough to the point that they lose Great Power after the next lost war and then a Hegemony war what if they lose puts them automatically in your sphere and then quickly the Hurrah! event before they recover

 

[hegel68]

For example it's impossibile for 2 armies (42k soldiers per stack) getting across Munich territory and get a penalty of 10%. Almost 10k soldiers dies in crossing Munich ? What the ... ?

Well that's easy to explain; they obviously get lost in the Munich beer gardens ... hm, well considering this, 10% is probably even understated

 

[Phalanxia]

How frequently are people seeing AI Germany form, and when in the game?

I didn't see it form and played up to the 1900s before I had to do a system restore. NGF formed fine, no problems, but France was too big and scary for the NGF to take down

 

[Zarine]

I have a doubt about the idea of a too big value for the MIL score...
Unless they changed the calculation a lot. And when I mean a lot it's a lot... With big tweak, I hardly reach 30k points with the 1.2 version.
Unless they selected a 8 bit value (limited to 128 points would be lol), there is no way that it goes all the other way.

 

[Swuboo]

I have a doubt about the idea of a too big value for the MIL score...
Unless they changed the calculation a lot. And when I mean a lot it's a lot... With big tweak, I hardly reach 30k points with the 1.2 version.
Unless they selected a 8 bit value (limited to 128 points would be lol), there is no way that it goes all the other way.

That presumes that the underlying value is actually what you see, and not a more complex and granular datum which is rounded off or run through a comparison with other nations to produce the score on your screen.

 

[Sayd]

How frequently are people seeing AI Germany form, and when in the game?

I saw Bavaria formed Germany formerly in 1855+, Prussia was alive.

 

[RedRalphWiggum]

I saw Bavaria formed Germany formerly in 1855+, Prussia was alive.

With this patch??? Please tell us how that happened!

 

[Obermotz]

bavaria easily becomes a great power in a lot of my games. When they win a hegemony war over prussia and gain the crown from the gutter such things might happen

 

[Derp]

I'm still waiting for the game to get a bit *better* to buy it but I'm afraid I must wait for an expansion at this point.

Don't get me wrong the game is very nice I loved Victoria 1, just because I love the history of 19th Century.
There is however a problem that EU3/HoI/Vic have: military.
In Victoria 2 regiments are pop based and here is the "unfun":
1. when a pop get too low simply the regiments "attached" are destroyed - even if during WWI ethnical and neighbourhood groups of soldiers were create, simply if you have 40k Berliners you just don't destroy a division because you can't replenish the ranks with Berliners.
2. linked to the above, FAR TOO MANY CLICKS to create regiments that are easily destroyed. You should reconsider a recruitment system: you have manpower (as it were in Victoria) - if you're not at war you send them to boot camp - you buy weapons, artillery, planes, tanks (if you have planes and tanks) - when the boot camp is over you send them to ranks.
3. linked to point 2. Regiments should be created as "standards". Id est you create a regiment filling in officers - simulating the reality when you create barracks where soldiers one day will fit in and HQ where high rank officers fit in. Given manpower, time to finish the boot camp and weapons, you can fill up ranks in the ragiment.
4. this part is easily moddable in fact: reinforcement speed ! Even if you have 40k soldiers it's VERY VERY unlikely they can't fill up ranks in a month. An example? usually American Civil War is fought by 40k soldier in CSA and 120k soldiers in USA. Where are the more than two million people mobilized? And the 300-400k casualties?
5. I don't exactly have an idea with this point but stack penalties and attrition seems to be unrealistic. For example it's impossibile for 2 armies (42k soldiers per stack) getting across Munich territory and get a penalty of 10%. Almost 10k soldiers dies in crossing Munich ? What the ... ?

That's my opinion. The military part is the funnier thing in game, problem is it doesn't work.

Attrition is a combination of pretty much everything that could make a soldier unfit to fight. Sickness, desertion, etc. It's not just "10% die". It also goes down significantly with tech; by the late 19th/early 20th century you can have pretty sizable stacks without suffering attrition.

I agree with most of your other points though, the administrative aspect of the military is kind of a pain in the butt, especially when you have to build 1000+ regiments.

 

[DesertSnow]

They move them away from the borders immediately after they are mobilized, but the AI will often send low ORG units into combat.

I thank you for the answer.

 

[quetzilla]

I'm seeing some weird issues with AI use of NFs. Basically it seems that for one state low-literacy nations, they park the NF on bureaucrats and ride the bloat into the ground. Wallachia had 6.4% bureaucrats and was still encouraging more. They had their admin slider at about 10% and they were still -3 money per day and 1100 in debt. I have seen similar results for other states like Oranje/Transvaal. It would be nice to get the AI not do dig itself into a bureaucratic bloat hole!

 

[Jawa]

I'm seeing some weird issues with AI use of NFs. Basically it seems that for one state low-literacy nations, they park the NF on bureaucrats and ride the bloat into the ground. Wallachia had 6.4% bureaucrats and was still encouraging more. They had their admin slider at about 10% and they were still -3 money per day and 1100 in debt. I have seen similar results for other states like Oranje/Transvaal. It would be nice to get the AI not do dig itself into a bureaucratic bloat hole!

I can confirm this. The small indian satellite states do this aswell.

 

[AlknicTeos]

after my first little greek game until the 70's I startet a germany game also until the 70's.
And something is quite strange. China's people for example went down to 50M, but also european countries like greece lost about 1/3 of their population , and me with germany was able to hold population with all medicine inventions. While I don't really know what happend with china's pops the civilized population coudln't emigrate all to the americas.
So where are the pepole ? starved ?

The new system with rgo's workforce get unemployed is good when through better techs and inventions less people are need. But now when Conquering for example Vlandern - there live rather much people and till the are all employed in the rgo's they became craftsmen or soldiers ( soldiers are awesome in colonies ...) , well it's nice - but so industrialization shouldn't happen. So what's the reason for setting all people in occupied/conquered provinces idle ? why the rate in which people are hired is fixed about 50 per day ?
Also still strange are some raw material like cotton or wool. In the trade windows it says not in high demand, but when playing with greece I wasn't able to get those. Also the values (supply & demand) varied rather strong from one day to the next. Also demand was usually at 100% of supply.

 

[ZomgK3tchup]

I came to the conclusion that military score frequently drops into the negatives if you're playing on a difficulty level other than Normal. The boost in supply limit and organization that the player or AI receives through the static modifiers will give you a negative score.