Beta of 1.3 - 17th March 2011 - Discussion Thread

[Avindian]

Re: the democracy problem -- I had the same problem with an earlier game as Argentina. I think Democracy promoting emigration is WAD.

 

[unmerged(90249)]

How about national (and maybe private) debts demand gold (=precious metals) to back them up?

I´d really like to see a semi-realtistic monetary system in Vicky at some point. Make precious metals a tradeable and stockpilable (by nations and rich pops) ressource. The sum of the national and pops´ stockpiles would determine, how much money the respective national bank can lend out (create) and the individual stockpiles would determine each actors (state or rich pop) cerdibility (loan limit and corresponding interest rates at various debt levels). Add ´fractional reserve´ as a simple stock-to-potential-money multiplying commerce tech (1x without tech, then 1.5x,2x,3x,5x,10x, maybe?).

I think you´d get very interesting results with that. First off, the foundation for more money would need to be laid out, when more money is least needed, e.g. when pops and nations do have such a financial surplus as being able to afford stockpiling some gold in their national banks. As soon, as (if ever) nations and pops start to lack some money, they will be tempted to sell their gold stockpiles, reducing their debt-cap (with a multiplier, so x-fold). Secondly, all money that isnt in existance at game start, will incure an interest. Due to competition between the nations and capitalists respectively, i´d expect the mechanic to get into high use, anyways, as time matters, and 1$ now is better than 1$ later in competitive environments. Thirdly, you could introduce international fiscal politics regarding opening your national bank to foreign nations and pops for lending and borrowing, one of these, or none.

And of course, most importantly, you´d get dynamic demand for precious metals.

Your post seems yo imply the countries in Vic2 are using paper money. Am I understanding correctly?

In that case, allow me to tell you preious metal money (coins) were used in day to day life quite recently (last coins in silver I got as cashier was in 1978, maybe 1979; and they were common up to 1975 before the petroleum crisis).

During most of the game time frame (let say up to 1914) most of the coinages were in precious metal (I believe T.Roosevelt was the first to act aginst that, in 1902 if I recall correctly). So I do not see any reasons to make the use of paper money (or is it called flat money en US english?) during that time frame (banknote used were tied up very tiedly to the actual stock of precious metals into the emitting banks).

 

[Darkrenown]

Does the new interface from GG work properly now?

I'm not sure what's happening with that. The DLCs are all fan-made, not made by us.

 

[Zarine]

There's a poulation leak somewhere.
During an aggressive game with France, I saw my population loosing tons of people. And when I say tons, I saw my NF going from 3 to 2 before 1845.

Then to test it further, I added a fix population growth (0.1 in the static_modifier file). Same issue : even with the large boost the population was bearly stable and by 1850 I reached the limit of 3 NF (start is near 4 as far as I can remember).

Each time on the summary the population growth is in green but I still loose people.
I noticed that sometimes, my population went +0.5M in 2 seconds and then -0.01 per day or something like that.
I checked province per province at the end of the month and every province was in positive (as expected with the growth boost) for population (natural growth + migration). But still I was loosing tons of people.

I also checked the army and didn't notice any attrition. Because of the population lost I had some units with yellow/red population linked, but the unit was full and not loosing men.

 

[Talq]

My feedback (playing Netherlands till 1867):

The economy is mostly working smoothly so far as it affects the player, although there are occasional glitches. In particular, my pops occasionally were unable to source products (notably tea) despite there being enough on the market and even where there wasn't I should have had enough prestige to get it. This seems to imply that they actually were not ordering enough from the world market. There was an early game shortage of iron - it may be worthwhile getting RGOs to target producing slightly more than world demand, so they are not caught out as demand increases. There is also an early game shortage of lumber, which I think is because the AI hates producing it (given lumber mills can only be built in certain provinces, it may be worthwhile increasing the weighting capitalists give to building them when they are available).

I can't be confident that the world economy is running all that smoothly. In particular China has shed population from 402M at game start to 292M in 1897 despite not being at war. Whether this is due to mass unemployed pops starving off or issues with internal migration I don't know.

One issue with the new RGO model - when I captured Korea I found that there was 90% unemployment in the RGOs. This was in part because when the provinces were occupied, the workers lose their place as producers so they are not re-employed when occupation ends. This could be a bit of an issue because as it stands it seems RGO workers in colonies can only be soldiers - certainly I'm not seeing any workers moving to states.

I also have had difficulty with new-world emigration. As it stands craftsmen tend to easily get all their luxuries even at high tax rates provided you have a couple of output increasing techs, so their CON easily hits 10, which means there is a guaranteed leakage to the new world even with 100% luxuries and militancy at zero. Maybe it would be worth shutting this off now that you have RGO unemployment being a factor in new world emigration?

 

[pacja]

Just finished a very funny campaign with OE and I must say that PI did a great job with code optimizations: now the game runs smoothly and fluid till the end, even if major wars (I've engaged – and defeated – a USA-Russia alliance around 1933) still claim their tribute to game speed. With 1.1 and 1.2 the last 40 years of game were running more or less at 2x speed, while now the game "ticks" 4x all the way (even 5x for the first 40-50 years).

 

[Jawa]

I also have had difficulty with new-world emigration. As it stands craftsmen tend to easily get all their luxuries even at high tax rates provided you have a couple of output increasing techs, so their CON easily hits 10, which means there is a guaranteed leakage to the new world even with 100% luxuries and militancy at zero. Maybe it would be worth shutting this off now that you have RGO unemployment being a factor in new world emigration?

Good idea!

 

[kaspar42]

The tactical AI seems a lot better now. In 1.2 it was easy to lure huge fractions of the enemy army into an attack on a single province, and then envelop and destroy them. Now it seems as though they are actively guarding their flanks. Envelopment is still a very effective tactic against the AI, but it seems a lot harder to pull of now

 

[The Starfox]

Does gold actually spawn as a good properly? Does it continue to also leak directly into your treasury if you have a province that produces it?

Not sure what you mean by does it spawn properly, but it doesn't appear in the trade screen if thats what you mean. However, Ive been testing as Prussia -> NGF, and Konigsburg currently has 33k laborers working the gold mine, which is bringing in 30 to my budget. Further my rich pops have definitely been buying it up to satisfy their luxury needs.

 

[DesertSnow]

The tactical AI seems a lot better now. In 1.2 it was easy to lure huge fractions of the enemy army into an attack on a single province, and then envelop and destroy them. Now it seems as though they are actively guarding their flanks. Envelopment is still a very effective tactic against the AI, but it seems a lot harder to pull of now

Has the problem with AI nations sending mobilised troops against you as soon as they are created (without waiting for their organisation to reach an appropriate level) been solved?

 

[Phalanxia]

Then there has to be factors that create such a large gap.

Is it possible - Im theorizing - that its the fact my colonies were territorial contiguous to my main states (which btw prevents the use of the Immigration NF) that caused my lack of migration?

It may be something else, but i didnt just get too few migrants, I got exactly zero - so I assume something wasnt WAD. Even if its something else, I still wonder, why prevent Immigration NFs to contiguous colonies in the old world? It seems like a undue restriction, particularly hurtful for countries like Russia, the OE, etc. Insult is also added to injury by lifting this restriction for countries in the new world hehe. (Exact trigger is that the region must be in the Americas or "Overseas".)

I didn't use my immigration NF at all though. To be fair, the RGO in the Brunei case was oil - but then the other province which was mobbed by Italians in that state was timber. Of course, I didn't have any bureaucrats migrating, so they stayed colonies for ever and ever.

Re: the democracy problem -- I had the same problem with an earlier game as Argentina. I think Democracy promoting emigration is WAD.

As S-P, my industrialisation was crippled until I made moves towards Prussian Const. I found myself in the strange position of being the most autocratic state in all of Italy by 1850, and I was economically overtaken quite severely by Two Sicilies. My population of North Italians was decreasing every day until I made political reforms that stopped the buggers from fleeing from my iron fist.

 

[Jazumir]

Your post seems yo imply the countries in Vic2 are using paper money. Am I understanding correctly?

Are you saying, they were not, and that in 1836 (or a bit later), there were no bills around?

In that case, allow me to tell you preious metal money (coins) were used in day to day life quite recently (last coins in silver I got as cashier was in 1978, maybe 1979; and they were common up to 1975 before the petroleum crisis).

Rather exceptional. The portion of money actually being precious metal declined throughout the timeframe (and beyond).

During most of the game time frame (let say up to 1914) most of the coinages were in precious metal (I believe T.Roosevelt was the first to act aginst that, in 1902 if I recall correctly). So I do not see any reasons to make the use of paper money (or is it called flat money en US english?) during that time frame

Paper money != fiat money. Fiat money is not backed by gold. Paper money can be fiat money, but can also be backed (at different multipliers) money.

(banknote used were tied up very tiedly to the actual stock of precious metals into the emitting banks).

Exactly. With a certain multiplier - the higher it is, the closer you are to fiat money. The mechanics i suggested aim to reflect just that.

 

[stamasd]

Your post seems yo imply the countries in Vic2 are using paper money. Am I understanding correctly?

In that case, allow me to tell you preious metal money (coins) were used in day to day life quite recently (last coins in silver I got as cashier was in 1978, maybe 1979; and they were common up to 1975 before the petroleum crisis).

During most of the game time frame (let say up to 1914) most of the coinages were in precious metal (I believe T.Roosevelt was the first to act aginst that, in 1902 if I recall correctly). So I do not see any reasons to make the use of paper money (or is it called flat money en US english?) during that time frame (banknote used were tied up very tiedly to the actual stock of precious metals into the emitting banks).

Silver coins are still around in real life, most people don't realize it though. Last time I got a silver dime for change was about 2 years ago. I wouldn't have noticed were it not for my habit of checking out ALL dimes that pass through my hands (it's simple, you just look at the edge. See any red? It's not silver. No red all around? Chances are it's silver)

 

[stamasd]

Are you saying, they were not, and that in 1836 (or a bit later), there were no bills around?

At least for the pound sterling, bills existed but were overly rare until about 1855 when the Bank of England began to have them printed (as opposed to handmade). The main mass of circulating money was still coins until far later on, since the smallest bill was £1, an amount ordinary people were unlikely to ever manipulate.

 

[RedRalphWiggum]

Back on topic

 

[RedRalphWiggum]

How frequently are people seeing AI Germany form, and when in the game?

 

[quetzilla]

I didn't use my immigration NF at all though. To be fair, the RGO in the Brunei case was oil -

The Oil issue is a problem under the new system that happens when a province changes which good it produces -- all the workers immediately become unemployed, but the new goods generally don't have high demand, so the workers all demote/emigrate somewhere else, leaving maybe 1-2k workers. This is what happened to me when Bucharest switched to oil -- everyone either left or turned into craftsmen.

How frequently are people seeing AI Germany form, and when in the game?

In my last played out game it formed somewhere around the 1890's -- I thought it was because Austria took Schleswig instead of Prussia, has that been the case for others too?

 

[quetzilla]

I didn't use my immigration NF at all though. To be fair, the RGO in the Brunei case was oil -

The Oil issue is a problem under the new system that happens when a province changes which good it produces -- all the workers immediately become unemployed, but the new goods generally don't have high demand at first, and it also only hires people back at a rate of 50 per day, so the unemployed workers all demote/emigrate somewhere else, leaving maybe 1-2k workers. This is what happened to me when Bucharest switched to oil -- everyone either left or turned into craftsmen.

How frequently are people seeing AI Germany form, and when in the game?

In my last played out game it formed somewhere around the 1890's -- I thought it was because Austria took Schleswig instead of Prussia, has that been the case for others too?

edit: Oops, I see you meant Germany not NGF, in which case twice, so not very often. Although they've been pretty beastly both times they did form.

 

[Minchandre]

How frequently are people seeing AI Germany form, and when in the game?

Never happened in my USA or Argentina games. NGF forms just fine, and in the USA game NGF even took Alsace-Lorraine off of the French, but France had snatched up Bavaria into its sphere and wouldn't let it go.

 

[J-S]

idk if that has been posted before (probably has but I'm o lazy to read 10 pages )

my miltary score is displayed with -85 ranking me 84