Beta Event Change Suggestions

[unmerged(2456)]

I'm working on redoing the events to have better conditions and modifiers, and occasionally effects. These changes are overall going to be quite conservative and mostly to help gameplay.

The first one, since i'll just go down the list in alphabetical order, is advance_discovery.txt. This just fixes an oversight in the conditions whereby FE you could have tech level 1 and 3, but not 2 and gain tech level 4 before level 2.

advance_discovery.txt

 

[Grosshaus]

The first one, since i'll just go down the list in alphabetical order, is advance_discovery.txt. This just fixes an oversight in the conditions whereby FE you could have tech level 1 and 3, but not 2 and gain tech level 4 before level 2.

That is not a bug, that is a designed feature that works as intended, you can check the FAQs for more information. This can only be a mod, not part of patches.

 

[unmerged(5822)]

A potential problem could be with researching level 2 while already having level 3; I tried it once (I think it was 1187; the entire world had access to water wheels for some reason), and my research gave me level 4 instead of level 2...

The research conditions should be that it checks if you have ALL preceeding levels, not that you just have the LAST preceeding level.
(dunno if this is or isn't already the case, I might just have had a bad fluke)
(please note that this is about the "research" aspect, not the "tech spreading" one)

 

[Grosshaus]

A potential problem could be with researching level 2 while already having level 3; I tried it once (I think it was 1187; the entire world had access to water wheels for some reason), and my research gave me level 4 instead of level 2...

It's not a problem, it's an intended feature.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

That is not a bug, that is a designed feature that works as intended, you can check the FAQs for more information. This can only be a mod, not part of patches.

Yes i know it isn't a bug. I'm saying the logic behind it being the way it is, is bad as The Phionex describes.

This isn't the same as techspread because your researching stuff on your own and you need to know the basics before you can grasp the more complex and advanced stuff.

Although i question a few of them as well (FE i can't see someone understanding the concept of a three-field system is they don't understand the concept of a two-field system, even if its by spread).

Besides you don't get the benifits of the higher techs unless you know the stuff in-between, except for building placement at the scenerio start.

 

[unmerged(5822)]

I have a hard time understanding why being unable to discover something, only because you know something more advanced, would be considered a 'feature'...
(except for the deliberate exception of orthodoxy and Religious Stringency)

IMO, if I am "researching" in a particular direction, it should always be the lowest undiscovered tech that gets "researched". I don't mind if high-level techs accidentally spread faster than lower-level ones, but it's quite distressing to be blocked from researching an important level 2 technology only because I've accidentally had level 3 spread to my realm before that.

 

[Grosshaus]

I have a hard time understanding why being unable to discover something, only because you know something more advanced, would be considered a 'feature'...
(except for the deliberate exception of orthodoxy and Religious Stringency)

IMO, if I am "researching" in a particular direction, it should always be the lowest undiscovered tech that gets "researched". I don't mind if high-level techs accidentally spread faster than lower-level ones, but it's quite distressing to be blocked from researching an important level 2 technology only because I've accidentally had level 3 spread to my realm before that.

Ah, looking at the way the events are formed now I see the problem.

But based on vague memories of a discussion with Jonas, one of the developers, I got the feeling that it's not intended even in research to always get the lowest tech. Thinking of it there migth be a possibility to attain this by tweaking the triggers and MTTHs so that the later ones aren't excluded but just have a very high MTTH is the previous models haven't been researched. That would mean quite a lot of scripting and testing though.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

I have been able to research Level 2 after starting with Level 1 and Level 3, so I don't see the problem Phoenix is referring to.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

I have been able to research Level 2 after starting with Level 1 and Level 3, so I don't see the problem Phoenix is referring to.

He means, atleast he seems to mean as I do, that if you have level 1 and level 3, level 4 shouldn't be possible to research.

Grosshaus:

I can understand in some cases, but really there are cases most notably in military techs, farming techniques & equip, some architecture, some commerce institues and some in fairs & routes that really don't make sense to have without certain prevcious ones that aren't just the one fore it.

Can you ask Jonas what his reasoning was?

If nothing else, as you mentioned noting havinga llhe previous techs should increase the MTTH by a signifigant amount.

 

[Grosshaus]

I can understand in some cases, but really there are cases most notably in military techs, farming techniques & equip, some architecture, some commerce institues and some in fairs & routes that really don't make sense to have without certain prevcious ones that aren't just the one fore it.

Can you ask Jonas what his reasoning was?

It was about the need for randomness as the Medieval tech gain process wasn't as controlled and determinable as modern ones. I'm quite sure MrT wrote about that stuff more in the FAQs.

 

[Cat Lord]

Yes, it's not a bug, you can actually discover lvl 5 before lvl 1, IIRC...

Cat

 

[unmerged(2456)]

Then what is the point of having the previous technology as a hard RQ?

 

[NeilJT]

Then what is the point of having the previous technology as a hard RQ?

So the situation is that one needs level 3, but not neccesarily level 2 to reseach level 4?

and level 2 to research 3?

That sounds wrong to me - either make it a 'soft' requirement (i.e. having level 3 reduces the MTTH by 90%, but isn't required) or do an Jinnai says and make it a requirement to have all previous techs.

 

[Grosshaus]

Then what is the point of having the previous technology as a hard RQ?

No point really.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

I updated and uploaded a modified version of advance_discovery.txt that removes all the hard RQ of the previous tech and makes them all previous techs soft RQ that double the length of time if you don't have them for each one.

These might need to be tweaked though and as well rather than modify the MTTH scoe which would affect how the other modifers work with the MTTH score, i simply made it so that the tech doubles the MTTH score if you don't have the previous ones.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

In the latest beta, there really is a plenty of revolt. Not only because it triggers a lot, but also because it spreads like... like wildfire . Some areas reach a "self-sustained" state, where revolt is permanent due to spread events. There should either be some more ways of combatting revolts (actually ending them with force, which is currently impossible), or MTTH of spread event should be seriously toned down. Well, I undertand that having permanent revolt is fairly historical in some places, but no fun certainly, especially in the places that don't have serious reasons (are no pagan, heretic, have no oppresed strata etc.), that have revolts only due to spread.

 

[unmerged(27106)]

Well, I undertand that having permanent revolt is fairly historical in some places, but no fun certainly, especially in the places that don't have serious reasons (are no pagan, heretic, have no oppresed strata etc.), that have revolts only due to spread.

"Oppressed strata" is a relative term. I think the pesantry could probably always come up with a good excuse or two to revolt.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

"Oppressed strata" is a relative term. I think the pesantry could probably always come up with a good excuse or two to revolt.

Sure, I was just implying gamewise - no strata having less than 10% power...

 

[unmerged(27106)]

I'm working on redoing the events to have better conditions and modifiers, and occasionally effects. These changes are overall going to be quite conservative and mostly to help gameplay.

The first one, since i'll just go down the list in alphabetical order, is advance_discovery.txt. This just fixes an oversight in the conditions whereby FE you could have tech level 1 and 3, but not 2 and gain tech level 4 before level 2.

advance_discovery.txt

Just a note, I installed your file and got three errors. The only one I remember is the 3rd one, cathedra_schools = yes, but I thought I would mention it anyways.

 

[unmerged(27106)]

As a follow-up to my previous post, the errors were in lines 12795, 12965, and 18070.