best year for axis start the war...

[geogus]

Hi guys
I've read more than once that the ideal for both italy and Germany would be to start the war in 1943 or at least 1941, so they could re-arm better and get stronger industrial capacity.

Never read something simular about Japan but i imagine more time would allow the japs to build better industry, altough, by the other hand, the US embargo would cripple their economy.

What would be the bestt year for Germany, Japan and Italy to go to war?

Game terms, would benefit the axis to delay the war for a few years ( considering unlike real life allies would use the time to rearm strongly)

 

[Hagen67483]

I think an early start of the war benefits the axis the most. Yes they need time to build their armys, but they need to beat their enemys like france or the USSR bevor these can get rid of their bad modifiers (For france the high reseach time for doctrines as an example or the effects of the purges for the USSR)

 

[Khelder]

Pushing back war start to 1943 would be quite risky and at least if you are thinking of attacking Soviet Union -43 is way too late as they would have had time to get over the purge and build up their army. IRL Stalin was preparing for war to start in -42 and was surprised when Germans attacked which allowed them to push far into the SU without having to face strong resistance.

Considering that Germany is able to conquer Western Europe with the army they can build by -39 any waiting past that would be waste of resources that would help their war efforts by not getting the raw materials and factories that the conquered countries could provide. On top of that any delay gives the Allies more time to strengthen their defenses in France leading to costlier war down the road for Germany.

 

[Kovax]

Either 1939 before the Soviets can harness their full industrial potential, or else around 2016 when NOBODY expects it.

 

[calebmarkle]

For how long the purge takes you pretty much want to have the SU on its knees by the end of 1942/1943 or you waited too long. As Germany starting the war a little late in early 1940 with a winter invasion of Poland followed by a spring invasion of France is probably your best bet to stay on schedule for taking down the soviets. If you wait much longer then that the SU will be too strong and will be a much tougher nut to crack.

 

[Mutagen_Prime]

As a German player you'll want to attack the USSR as fast as possible before she can move all her factories east behind the Urals and before she can consolidate her forces post-purge. Attack too early and your forces will find themselves far too weak and undeveloped to scathe her, attack too late and her industrial, numerical might will be almost unassailable.

 

[Evan05]

It is imperative that war is declared on the USSR in 1940-41 when they're still suffering the effects of the Great Officer Purge. So if Germany can play the diplomacy game right and can go to war with Poland without drawing in France, then 1940.

If it's not possible, 1939 to ensure Germany has sufficient time to defeat France and secure the Alantic Wall before invading the Soviet Union.

 

[jcd000]

Spring 1940!
Beat Poland and France before that during '39 & winter '40.

 

[ObssesedNuker]

Well, IRL it had to be between 1938 and 1941. In 1941, Britain and France would finish rearming and be too strong. In 1942, the Soviet Union would have finished reforming and be too strong. Additionally, Germany was facing a total economic implosion by 1941 which would have done baaaaad things to their rearmament program and left them in the dust in terms of military strength. They had to knock out the Anglo-French in 1939/40 then turn around and deal a crippling blow to the USSR in 1941. They partly succeeded on the first part (knocked out the French and managed to evict the British from the continent), but failed on the second.

Alternatively, they could have given up on trying to conquer all of Europe, abandoned rearmament, and tried peaceful economic development and trade relations with the rest of Europe and America, but that was anathema to Hitler and the Nazis beliefs on how the world worked.

 

[Sharp163]

The later the better. Germany was not ready in the slightest in 1933. In fact, if Poland had invaded Germany then, they would have probably won. Germany was very close to being ready by the end of the 30's, which is why the war started 3 months before 1940.

Had the war started in 1945, it could have gone very differently.

 

[MonkeyFuzz]

As a German player, 1939 is a fine time to start the war. What you don't want to do is trust in hordes of aging U-boat designs. Keep your submarine technology developing along before the Allied ASW effort gets the upper-hand. Waiting until 1943 to start work on your fancy electroboots is too late. With that, you can blocked sufficient Lend-Lease from reaching the Soviets or British.

 

[Evan05]

The later the better. Germany was not ready in the slightest in 1933. In fact, if Poland had invaded Germany then, they would have probably won. Germany was very close to being ready by the end of the 30's, which is why the war started 3 months before 1940.

Had the war started in 1945, it could have gone very differently.

Yes, in a complete and brutal smashing of the Germany military

By 1945, the USSR would have recovered so much from the purges and finished reorganizing (and building up) their military that Germany would have been completely wrecked. France's general rearmament would also be complete be '45.

Starting with the year 1940, the longer Germany waits, the worse it's chances are of winning the war.

 

[MonkeyFuzz]

Remember, Germany wasn't trying to launch another world war in September 1939. Albert Speer and the Z Plan were expecting a war in the late-1940s or 1950s. Germany was trying to achieve goals that this forum isn't allowed to cover. France and Britain sort of coming to Poland's aid was not expected.

 

[Oriflamme]

Remember, Germany wasn't trying to launch another world war in September 1939. Albert Speer and the Z Plan were expecting a war in the late-1940s or 1950s. Germany was trying to achieve goals that this forum isn't allowed to cover. France and Britain sort of coming to Poland's aid was not expected.

I don't think it's accurate to say "Germany" was preparing for one thing or another. Hitler instructed the senior officers of the Reichswehr, pretty early on in his political career, to prepare for war no later than 1938, and fully expected war to ensue as a result of Germany's demands for a partition of Czechoslovakia (hence Fall Grün). However, virtually no one in the military shared Hitler's confidence for success and vigorously protested his plans at nearly every turn. What was unexpected was that Britain and France would completely cave on the issue.

 

[Sharp163]

Yes, in a complete and brutal smashing of the Germany military

By 1945, the USSR would have recovered so much from the purges and finished reorganizing (and building up) their military that Germany would have been completely wrecked. France's general rearmament would also be complete be '45.

Starting with the year 1940, the longer Germany waits, the worse it's chances are of winning the war.

The more powerful the USSR and France would be, but the stronger Germany would be as well...

 

[keynes2.0]

January 1936.

Less bloodshed that way.

 

[Wimpola]

The later the better. The Germans production capabilities are very low at the start and need time to build up. Also Germany has a large manpower pool and resources. As long as you keep building an army you will exceed that of the Allies.

 

[dav77-b]

=> early Spring/Summer 1939/1940 together with poland , hungary, romania, bulgaria , the baltic states and finland versus Russia.
Only one front. No western strategic bombing. No T34.

 

[Aries666]

I had a really interesting game in HOI3 where I didn't go to war until late 43. To keep threat down only took events as far as Austria and was able to build a completely mechanised force, 6 months after I had declared on Poland (who were not guaranteed by Britain) I had knocked out Russia whose army was still primarily slow infantry which were easily overrun. I used the extra time to bring the Americans into the Axis fold then brought in the Japanese, by the end of 45 everyone was axis, neutral or dead.

 

[Secret Master]

I've done it both ways in HOI3. Early and late.

I can only say that, in game terms, a human player has an advantage the historical Germans did not. Since I'm better at playing the game than the AI in HOI3, the longer I delay the war, the more my human advantages help me outplay the AI in the economic and research game. Sure, the Soviets get more time to spin up the economy, but when you face the Soviet Union with ARM/MECH/whatever spam coupled with TAC and INT spam with much higher technology and better doctrines, it becomes too easy. (Well, until you run out of fuel at the gates of Moscow, but what do you expect? I killed 80k in fuel in less than a year.)

But I don't think it's a coincidence that there are a whole list of strategies that involve an early Sea Lion and early Barbarossa. Striking before the Allies or Soviets can get into high gear is a huge advantage. Defeating France and Britain before the summer of 1940 will solve resource problems for the Germans and free up an army for the big push into the Soviet Union before the Soviets are really prepared.