Best way to unite Japan in 1.24?

[Saberstrike]

Playing as Oda purely for the space marine ideas I managed to unite japan by 1520 with the help of a lot of loans, a lot of mercs and a lot of wars. However, that left me in quite an unenviable position of being at least 4 techs behind due to sheer amount of dip and adm point drain the wars had caused, as well as very little room to expand beyond colonialism due to Ming making asia a stale and boring region (when there isn't a player horde). My question is, is there a less 'ruinous' way to play as Japan / Damiyo in 1.24?

Also curious if anyone has an idea for other venues of expansion than the spice islands / america? Colonization is profitable but I didn't pick Oda to fight the natives; And I can't pick on Ming because they completed all their reforms by the time my economy was back in order, gobbling up everything around them as tributaties (including northern spice island countries) as well as being ahead in tech.

Being a tributary could work to eat everything around them, but it will just further drain my already lacking mana. So uh... Any advice?

 

[Robert de Bruce]

What did you do for uniting? I didn't try it in 1.24 (last 1.22), but you should finish in 1470-80s, not 40-50 years later. And what costed you all your monarch points? There aren't so many high dev provinces in Japan and with Oda you even got RCC. Bad rulers?

 

[Saberstrike]

Yeah. Bad rulers + coring costs. Am I doing something wrong by just chain-warring the other damyos and taking all their land + money? Because even with low development the 1400s pre-idea coring costs are p. brutal for your adm. And I can't really afford advisors (mostly because of the freaking 10 regiment fort in Mino that alone probably cost 500 ducats to siege down with mercs).

 

[ShoGuL]

Yeah. Bad rulers + coring costs. Am I doing something wrong by just chain-warring the other damyos and taking all their land + money?

You are not doing anything wrong, but aggressive expansion can be a problem early. The correct way is to expand slowly the first few wars (stay below coalition cap!), make sure to arrange alliances to make it easier for you next time. And then annex the rest all at once, at the same time.

The key to a quick unification are the second or third wars, you want to declare simultaneous wars and occupy at least half of Japan at the same time. Since you are a Daimyo, no one else can enter coalition against you, so at the point where you can match the rest of Japan in strength, aggressive expansion effectively becomes irrelevant.

You should be able to consistently unify Japan in 15-20 years, though it gets a little risky if you pick an OPM and you might have to wait 5-10 years to build favors to get started. You probably want to focus admin points, and get a military advisor (unless you have a mil 0 ruler or something...).


PS: Don't form Japan until Diplo tech 8 if you want the Japanese Tea Culture price change event.

 

[Vulkandrache]

fort in Mino

Ignore the Daymios with forts. Just integrate those after you take Kyoto.

dip and adm point drain the wars had caused

Pick your rivals purely to suit your Spynetwork construction.
The Spy advisor is the best thing you can get.
Fabricate on everything, never take provinces without a claim.
Japan is one of the few areas where this is still possible.

Get two allies at the start, if things to well these will still be with you do dick them over in the war against Ashikage.

Take provinces up to OE cap, dont core anything until youve unlocked Admin 2. Might not be to everyones liking but thats what i do.
You want to core 1/3 to half of Japan yourself, the rest is annexations. You want to have as few Daymios left over as possible with none being to big.
4-6 is perfect. That gives you good distribution of your Diplomats while keeping LD low.

Also curious if anyone has an idea for other venues of expansion than the spice islands / america? Colonization is profitable but I didn't pick Oda to fight the natives

No-CB someone in India or Persia to vassalize them to get same-continent-coring range.

 

[Saberstrike]

Interesting. I hadn't even considered claiming as I thought the sengoku CB just does the same thing, but I guess not. Thanks for the tip!

 

[Less2]

Claiming is definitely essential for the Dip and Adm. Japan is a lot of development for such small provinces

Otherwise I'd recommend taking the Shogunate. Every ally is forced to join you in the war vs. the current Shogun, so you can take it pretty early if you butter up major daimyo powers and quickly go way over your normal relationship cap in alliances immediately before a DoW. Shogunate is a very powerful government and you'll be on top decades ahead of time without screwing your admin pool.

 

[Zephyrum]

If you're not on Ironman or willing to restart or really lucky, a funny strategy if Ming has Ashikaga rivaled is to fire a coalition war with them and hope you get subsidized by Ming. I did this on my Oda run and I had my unification done in 1470, and only 2 loans left after the war, which I paid off safely.

 

[Ptirodaktill]

Chain wars/anexation, any Daimyo can unite Japan under 25 years. Tosokawa can under 15 years.

 

[Saberstrike]

Some very nice advice all around, thank you.

I got two more japan related questions:

1) Is 'annex damyo' CB giving you -3 stab just bad design or is there a way to use it without taking the huge 'declare war on subject' hit?

2) Is it worth developing for institutions at all?

 

[ShoGuL]

Some very nice advice all around, thank you.

I got two more japan related questions:

1) Is 'annex damyo' CB giving you -3 stab just bad design or is there a way to use it without taking the huge 'declare war on subject' hit?

Don't attack your subjects, just integrate them...

2) Is it worth developing for institutions at all?

YES

 

[Saberstrike]

Don't attack your subjects, just integrate them...

The problem there is that the one I want to declare war on occupies most of the north of japan, and holds the trade center I need for the 'form japan' decision. Its liberty desire is at 100% due to relative power & development.

There's even a CB for fighting a damyo that's gotten too big, but why the world does it give -3 stab =/ Feels like a bit of an oversight.

 

[makaramus]

The problem there is that the one I want to declare war on occupies most of the north of japan, and holds the trade center I need for the 'form japan' decision. Its liberty desire is at 100% due to relative power & development.

There's even a CB for fighting a damyo that's gotten too big, but why the world does it give -3 stab =/ Feels like a bit of an oversight.

if he is last daimyo then just devolp his lands and you can annex him

 

[Cats.Cradle]

How do you go about becoming the new shogun? I've being trying to do so as uesugi, but when I annex Ashikaga, all of my allies in the war become independent daimyo. Shouldn't they become my new subjects? I don't have mandate of heaven, is it necessary to make this work properly?

 

[ShoGuL]

How do you go about becoming the new shogun? I've being trying to do so as uesugi, but when I annex Ashikaga, all of my allies in the war become independent daimyo. Shouldn't they become my new subjects? I don't have mandate of heaven, is it necessary to make this work properly?

Not sure. Have you tried taking Kyoto without annexing the previous shogun ?

I have Mandate of Heaven, but all I have to do to become Shogun is own Kyoto, then all daimyos are transfered to me.