Best way to colonize/explore new world as Sicily?

[Vampiresbane]

I started an ironman game as a released Sicily to play in short bursts while I work on Mare nostrum as the Byzantines. My goal is to ultimately be the strongest colonial power, hold only 3 provinces in mainland Europe (just the island of Sicily), but control most of all the global trade, and play a very, very "tall" game.

1. Get Renassaince to spawn in Sicily - Check
2. Get Great Powers to support independence - Check (Ottomans & Spain soon)
3. Unlock Exploration - Check
4. Starting Colonizing - Error found, no land near enough New World

So I could grab some territory from Aragon when I declare independence or I can try to nab Cape Verde from Portugal. Are those my only two options and what options are the best?

 

[Rainbow Mirage]

You could go east through Mamluks/Suez and explore india/Indonesia to colonize spice islands and the tiny islands in the indian ocean. From there you can expand into zanzibar/malacca.

 

[iquabakaner]

You could also attack Morocco for some Atlantic coastline.

 

[True_Heir_of_Rome]

Portugal is weak so that is a potential option. You could simply bide your time until you can reach the new world on your own if conquest doesn't pan out.

 

[Vampiresbane]

You could go east through Mamluks/Suez and explore india/Indonesia to colonize spice islands and the tiny islands in the indian ocean. From there you can expand into zanzibar/malacca.

I'm thinking unidirectionally here. I want to colonize only in the New World/Western Africa, at least at first. Attacking the Mamluks to gain enough territory would be tricky too. It's pretty far to core so I'd have to take a lot of land to hop to the Suez.

You could also attack Morocco for some Atlantic coastline.

That was definitely a thought. To get that far, I'd also have to take a fair # of provinces so I could core their Atlantic coastline provinces. I could just sell them back at a later date once my colonial range is far enough.

Portugal is weak so that is a potential option. You could simply bide your time until you can reach the new world on your own if conquest doesn't pan out.

They're allied to Britain so once I became independent and have Spain/Ottos as allies (countries that help you gain independence still become your allies, correct?), I'd have to wait 20 years to gain enough favors, but it's roughly year 1460 so I could make it happen before Colonization spawns.

As far as reaching it on my own, I can and I am gearing all my resources towards diplomatic tech right now so I can unlock as much colonial range as possible. My major issue is twofold:
#1 Sicily is really deep in the Mediterranean Sea so I need a LOT of Colonial Range and
#2 by the time I wait to have enough colonial range, Spain/Portugal will have seized too much of the New World and have it on lock down thanks to the Treaty of Tordesillas.
Realistically I need to get out to the New World quickly.

 

[Shinkuro Yukinari]

Take provinces from the berbers, first and foremost Tlemcen, as it is the weakest. That should get you closer to the New World

 

[Bouchart]

Usually as an Italian minor you can no-CB war against Granada early to get in range of Cape Verde. It'll set you back in admin points a bit and Castile will hate you but it's effective. As Naples/Sicily, Granada will likely not exist by the time you are independent.

 

[Vampiresbane]

Usually as an Italian minor you can no-CB war against Granada early to get in range of Cape Verde. It'll set you back in admin points a bit and Castile will hate you but it's effective. As Naples/Sicily, Granada will likely not exist by the time you are independent.

Good to know. Sounds like I'll have to steal a province from Aragon, Tlemcen, or Morocco so I can then steal the Cape Verde colony from Portugal. Not super easy, but doable.

Could I take Ceuta (province opposite Gibraltar) and Cape Verde from Portugal in the same war?

 

[Vampiresbane]

Update: can’t steal Cape Verde because the screwy AI puts Portugal’s entire force there, least 15 units strong. To even get that high I have to go over my army and naval force limits so that’s a no go. Sometimes they can be coaxed off but declaring war means it’s Sicily and Spain vs England, Venice, and Portugal-long odds. I could declare war just to get a white peace so that Spain doesn’t ally Portugal I guess and then declare directly on Portugal; still doesn’t solve the 15 units on Cape Verde issue.

 

[CountKino]

Update: can’t steal Cape Verde because the screwy AI puts Portugal’s entire force there, least 15 units strong. To even get that high I have to go over my army and naval force limits so that’s a no go. Sometimes they can be coaxed off but declaring war means it’s Sicily and Spain vs England, Venice, and Portugal-long odds. I could declare war just to get a white peace so that Spain doesn’t ally Portugal I guess and then declare directly on Portugal; still doesn’t solve the 15 units on Cape Verde issue.

There isn't a fort on Cape Verde, so you can occupy other parts of Portugal and demand Cape Verde in the peace deal anyway. Then their troops become exiled and will leave.

 

[Vampiresbane]

There isn't a fort on Cape Verde, so you can occupy other parts of Portugal and demand Cape Verde in the peace deal anyway. Then their troops become exiled and will leave.

Thought about that. It's a decent idea, but...

Cape Verde can't be selected in the peace deal - "Neither you or your allies control this province."

Right now I'm trying to figure out what patch I should revert to in order to avoid the "recent" AI behavior of sending their entire/85% of their armies to a single colony.

I might try 1.20 so I can still get the Age mechanic, but it's hard to figure out when that AI behavior started creeping up. I know with some amount of certainty when I played this game a year ago (probably 1.18?) I didn't see it occur.

 

[CountKino]

Thought about that.

Cape Verde can't be selected in the peace deal - "Neither you or your allies control this province."

Separate peace Portugal and you can select any of their provinces, the control is only if you're asking the war leader for a province owned by a lesser partner in the war.

 

[Vampiresbane]

Interesting. I’m not sure if I was doing a separate peace deal or not; fairly sure I was but I’ll check.

EDIT: I stayed with the up2date save. You can't take Cape Verde in a peace deal if you don't occupy it unless you're within coring range. Which I wasn't at the time because I hadn't yet attacked Granada. So that means you HAVE to seize colony which means you need to get troops on that dirt.

 

[Vampiresbane]

Usually as an Italian minor you can no-CB war against Granada early to get in range of Cape Verde. It'll set you back in admin points a bit and Castile will hate you but it's effective. As Naples/Sicily, Granada will likely not exist by the time you are independent.

Bouchart, when you do no-CB Granada can you core the provinces directly?
Or do you need to make Granada a vassal, annex, and then you get the cores that way?

 

[Vampiresbane]

Update:

Ended up giving up on attacking Portugal. Couple odd things contributed. First England is just beating the tar out of France so I can't attack Portugal or England with help from Castile without just getting spanked by England (I did some save scum tests). Second, Castile did attack Granada but only could take the province of Granada because it was starting to lose to the Granada/Tunis/Morocco alliance. Third, I did a No CB on Granada, took Gibraltar, gave the other Granada province to Castile but I then took the southern most Morocco province. With that province I no longer needed to attack Portugal in order to Colonize.

So far I have 2 colonies built in the Caribbean and 2 in progress. Castile has unlocked 1/8 exploration ideas, but nothing further so isn't a colonial competitor yet. Portugal, luckily for me, has only unlocked 3/8 so only has 1 colonist...which is fantastic because he settles colonies so much faster even though I'm maxing out all my settler bonuses (it's currently 85 to 65 or something, but at one point it was 110 to 65 settlement rate).

Once Castile unlocks his 2nd idea I'll have to start colonizing Africa so I can grab all the important Centers of Trade (CoT) since that's likely the only place he can colonize at first. Portugal, while screwing me over, colonized both Arguin AND Cape Verde, which is going to prevent Spain from Colonizing for a bit which is an upside to me not being able to colonize those two locations.

England has also unlocked Exploration, but hasn't start colonizing anywhere. He probably needs more colonial range. Norway has not unlocked Exploration and neither has France. Least not yet.

I'm allied to Castile, Hungary, and Portugal. It's doubtful I'll stay allied to Hungary or Portugal forever, but with Portugal there's always a chance I do. It really depends on what England does vs Castile. Castile is attacking Aragon right now with my small naval assistance. He might be able to annex him. If that happens, I'm not sure if Castile then absorbs the PU over Naples or if Naples is automatically independent. Oh and btw Burgundy succession crisis never happened as you can see above-probably a small reason why France isn't doing so hot; though in France's long term favor, Burgundy does not like England.

 

[Shinkuro Yukinari]

I'd recommend either building up more in the Old World or moving to the New World because of Colonial Nations easily overpowering you

 

[Vampiresbane]

I'd recommend either building up more in the Old World or moving to the New World because of Colonial Nations easily overpowering you

That's part of the challenge I'm setting up for myself. This run is more to see what I can do, try things I wouldn't ever do normally, and see what trouble I can get myself in and out of. In addition to playing Sicily as a 3 province minor taking over the new world and becoming a major Trade Empire, I'm taking Trade, Maritime, Naval, and Espionage (gasp, gasp, the horror! and GASP!) partially because I would never, ever take those in any other run. I'm going to keep mercantile down as low as possible to help with liberty desire, but also have merc forces on hand near my CN's to fight rebellions as they happen. Espionage with its -10% liberty desire will help a little, but it'll be mostly up to my golden armies to fight rebellious CN's.

 

[Shinkuro Yukinari]

That's part of the challenge I'm setting up for myself. This run is more to see what I can do, try things I wouldn't ever do normally, and see what trouble I can get myself in and out of. In addition to playing Sicily as a 3 province minor taking over the new world and becoming a major Trade Empire, I'm taking Trade, Maritime, Naval, and Espionage (gasp, gasp, the horror! and GASP!) partially because I would never, ever take those in any other run. I'm going to keep mercantile down as low as possible to help with liberty desire, but also have merc forces on hand near my CN's to fight rebellions as they happen. Espionage with its -10% liberty desire will help a little, but it'll be mostly up to my golden armies to fight rebellious CN's.

I also recommend lowering tariffs and making money from diverting trade. Your main node is still Genoa, right?

 

[Vampiresbane]

I also recommend lowering tariffs and making money from diverting trade. Your main node is still Genoa, right?

Yup, sounds good. Can you go down as low as 0% or is it 1% for tariffs? Also when I should I actually do that? Before the Age of Revolutions?

Yup still Genoa and will probably always be Genoa.

Btw, figured the answer to this question already:

Bouchart, when you do no-CB Granada can you core the provinces directly?
Or do you need to make Granada a vassal, annex, and then you get the cores that way?

I could core the provinces directly as Sicily. My coring distance may have been big enough; I just couldn't fabricate a claim from Baraes on any of the Granada provinces.

 

[Shinkuro Yukinari]

Yup, sounds good. Can you go down as low as 0% or is it 1% for tariffs? Also when I should I actually do that? Before the Age of Revolutions?

If you see >50% Liberty Desire, lower tariffs ASAP. Try to maximize the benefits