Best way of Civilising China(From Chinese forum)

[unmerged(137065)]

Hello, English is my second language. I hope you all can understand me. I will try my best and avoid using some difficult word that I am not familiar with.

I am from the chinese forum. They played China a lot so I might give you guys the best way of civilising China. I reviewed the posts here and find many of you civilization happened in the 1850s.

Acctually in our forum most of civ time is 1840s. the best I have done myself is 1841 (Version 103c) and 1845 (revolution). Thus, if you know how to play China, it has the most potential to become the strongest power.

Revolution is the most difficult version for China, requirements for "Industry point" is 75 !

A. How to civilize?
not go through the path of "history" or "events", but occupy the 4 north scotish land in the war against British (start 1939) . Thus you can have 3 factorys and one of them is a "factory of Machine Parts"

B. Economics
change tax as low as possible (20%) for all and tariff as high as possible (100%). You can try different combinations then you will know this is the most profitable one. it is about +95 cash flow per day. after Mar 1836 it will become about 100/day (gold rush will happen the earlest in Mar 1836, and chaozhou will be the highest gold production base over the world because of the huge pop.)

C.Army
buy everything you need to recruit the cavalry with H.....(the one add 2 shock points), the target is to buy arount 50-80 before July 1839 (it is very possible. Although uncivilized country will be punished by the tax efficiency, China still have a good daily income due to the big pop base, also in the later game after civilization, China is better than any other country to monopolize many of the manufactures. If you are interested we can talk about it in the future)

D.Buy ship
under the hardest mod (we usually play with this difficulty) you can buy ships in 1838 the earliest. under normal difficulty it will be around 1840 (becasue AI production has no "cheat" then they have less goods produced for you to buy)

E the war
you have the quatity advantage and cavalry vs infantry has advantage in early stage too. the british land force is a piece of cake (I will not spend too much word on how to occupy Indian land and the war on the island of UK). The key is on how to send your land force to the island of UK. The strategy is to send your ships (with your troops loaded) "expeditionary" to any one of British's settilite country. then you have the right to send your ships directly into british ports. Wow, your troops are now standing on their land. no need to explain the rest.

F. bug on how to occupy the land
I am the first one to find this bug in Chinese paradox forum. I don't know if anybody here has found this bug or not.
Any of your land army can occupy an enimy territory in ONE day! For example you have only one troop , 10000 people. the first day when it arrived on the enimy territory(before you can see the fire on the city), pause, and save. without loading, continue until the occupy percentage become close to 100% (only one more day to occupy), exit without save, then load the previous date(just arrived), you will find the percentage is still close to 100%, the next day will occupy.
this bug will accelarate the end of war although it is not necessary at all. I am the only one use this bug there, While others civilize china still in 1840s without using it.

G. while you earned war points 100% against British, you can declare the rights of the 4 northen scotish land (will take lots of Save and Load). if you hate doing this, the solution is to get a reparation(25%) plus the territory in India (east indian, the one with 3 other countries beside).

H. Declare wars
Now you can not declare war on England again but you can declare war on one of the three indian countries. England will automaticly involve in the war because they are allies. After one ore several wars you will definetly have the factorys in Scoland.

I. Build factorys
Now you have the machines parts factory. the rest is to spend all your reserves to build factorys and meet the civil requirements. As I said above, the earliest of version 103c is 1841 and for Revolution it is 1845 (my personal record is 1841 for 103c and 1846 for revolution)

J. Other tips -- Ghost Army
I had a lot of disscussions with other chinese players. None of them believe me in the begining but finally my theory stands. the idea is to make your troops "Ghost" (death of people will not happen on your soldier pops). It does not help China becasue of the huge pop but it is valuable to many other countries.
For examply 1836 texas, it has 7 troops, 5 texas, 1 mexican, 1 Dioxe.
the Dioxe army is a ghost army! becasue none of texas province has such a soldier pop to support the troop. during the fights, any death caused by the troop will not affect any soldier pop (you can track the number of different soldier pops EVERYDAY) only remember the end of the month will have pop natual growth.

Now the problem is how to make the ghost army?
example: a country has two nations A and B, in order to make 50 ghost army:
step 1: makes at least 1 soldier pop of A (the total soldier pop should be larger than 50. if not, you need to make 50 A soldier pop)
step 2: recruit 50 A troops
step 3: makes 50 or more soldier pop of B (suggest more than 60 becasue you need manpower to renforce your troops after battles)
step 4: transfer the 60 soldier pop of A back to farmers or workers.

Now look at your army status on top of the frame, it will show:
nation A: 50/0
nation B: 0/60
thus the 50 A troops will become 'ghost'. any damage will not cause any damage on any soldier pop of B or any other pops of A. as national B provides enough manpower, you can still renforce your A troops.

We may need more disscussions between forums. I found many valuable posts here and at the same time I found you have not disscussed many secrets as some chinese post in their forums.

 

[Orm]

Maybe it takes being Chinese to devote yourself to finding those tricks and loopholes when playing China. Most people here will perhaps civilize China once, realize it becomes an invincible giant of micromanagement hell, and then go find another country to play.
I must say I liked the idea about attacking the Brits at home.
Many of the tricks you suggest are a bit too gamey for my taste though. I'm not looking for exploits when I play.

 

[unmerged(137065)]

the tricks I found

Well, I am not the one who innovated this way to civilize China.

Most of the tricks are found when I play China but they can also be applied to other nations. like "one day Occupy", "Ghost Army", "Badboy Laundry", "tech trap"... the most difficult nation I played my self is Vietnan and Korea. they can become great powers at around 1880s.

Other than China, I would like to challenge those small countries instead of great powers. we have lots of AARs in the Chinese forum about how to play a country that is ranked over 200.

Example: the AAR of how to play Krakow until become a great power is very hot in the Chinese forum. (Krakow was the old capital of Poland. in the game, it has only one city circled by prussia,russia,and Austria.)

 

[doublezero]

Interesting

Your point 'E', lending Chinese troops to a British ally and then invading Britain by stealth, is brilliant. I never knew how to load 'Expeditionary Forces' onto transports until I read your post.

The 'Ghost Army' trick would be helpful when playing small countries with some minority POPs. It's not really cheating because the game does this anyways. I mean, if you have 10/0 Dixie troops, that small Dixie POP representing the '0' in 10/0 is going to disappear anyways, but the game doesn't make your 10 Dixie regiments disappear. You can keep them for the rest of the game even with no actual POP backing it up.

Do you have any suggestions for V:R VIP 0.2? I tried to civilize China in this version and gave up in the 1890s.

 

[unmerged(137065)]

Your point 'E', lending Chinese troops to a British ally and then invading Britain by stealth, is brilliant. I never knew how to load 'Expeditionary Forces' onto transports until I read your post.

The 'Ghost Army' trick would be helpful when playing small countries with some minority POPs. It's not really cheating because the game does this anyways. I mean, if you have 10/0 Dixie troops, that small Dixie POP representing the '0' in 10/0 is going to disappear anyways, but the game doesn't make your 10 Dixie regiments disappear. You can keep them for the rest of the game even with no actual POP backing it up.

Do you have any suggestions for V:R VIP 0.2? I tried to civilize China in this version and gave up in the 1890s.

I don't know if I understand you right or not. the Loaded land Divisions are not expeditionary force. your transport (Navy) will be send to british allies as expeditionary force.

for VIP:R, it is very difficult to civilize a nation. I have never succeed either. There are some people did it and have AARs (in Chinese).

however, they do not suggest you play towards civilization because it is too costy. look at the following event in VIP:R. VIP:R wants to kill those uncivilized countries FOREVER !

action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME6667A"
command = { type = civilized value = yes }
command = { type = local_setflag which = LIBERAL_REVOLUTION value = 2 } #newly civilized nations should not have Lib Rev fire immediately. Need to develop separate system for them.
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = aristocrats value = -350 }
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = officers value = -350 }
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = capitalists value = -350 }
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = clerks value = -350 }
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = craftsmen value = -350 }
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = farmers value = -350 }
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = labourers value = -350 }
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = clergymen value = -350 }
}

 

[unmerged(137065)]

Maybe it takes being Chinese to devote yourself to finding those tricks and loopholes when playing China. Most people here will perhaps civilize China once, realize it becomes an invincible giant of micromanagement hell, and then go find another country to play.
I must say I liked the idea about attacking the Brits at home.
Many of the tricks you suggest are a bit too gamey for my taste though. I'm not looking for exploits when I play.

Hello,

I agree that china is the hell of micomanagement.

However, if you play other nations you will face the same problem (face the same problem later). Unless you don't want to annex China* or utilize the huge pop in your factorys built there.**

*Yes, annex China. There is a way to annex China in the early stage(1839)without get any Bayboy at all.

(1839 brits attack China, you can declare war on China too, occupy all costal lines and other places until britishes has no more entrance to China, then try to occupy all territory of China except the Capital Beijing. then send a troop to beijing, just before it arrived, lend this troop to british, then the british will occupy Beijing. then british will declare annex of China. Only beijing belongs to them, all other land belongs to you. British will take all the Badboy points.


**Yes, you can build factorys because there are many ways to change a colony teritory (discard of the location or culture) to your national state.

Now, no matter which nation you choose, you can not escape from the micromanagement of Chinese pops. Enjoy it ! ^_^

 

[doublezero]

I don't know if I understand you right or not. the Loaded land Divisions are not expeditionary force. your transport (Navy) will be send to british allies as expeditionary force.

for VIP:R, it is very difficult to civilize a nation. I have never succeed either. There are some people did it and have AARs (in Chinese).

however, they do not suggest you play towards civilization because it is too costy. look at the following event in VIP:R. VIP:R wants to kill those uncivilized countries FOREVER !

action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME6667A"
command = { type = civilized value = yes }
command = { type = local_setflag which = LIBERAL_REVOLUTION value = 2 } #newly civilized nations should not have Lib Rev fire immediately. Need to develop separate system for them.
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = aristocrats value = -350 }
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = officers value = -350 }
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = capitalists value = -350 }
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = clerks value = -350 }
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = craftsmen value = -350 }
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = farmers value = -350 }
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = labourers value = -350 }
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = clergymen value = -350 }
}

Ouch! Ok, forget civilizing in VIP 0.2 then. I have seen the China AI do it but it took until 1912. It would be much faster if you switch to Guangxi Clique once they declare independence, which happens in the 1840s or 1850s, because Guangxi Clique is considered 'Civilized'. Then you can conquer all of China with Guangxi Clique.

So to invade Britain without getting sunk by their navy which is surrounding their island, you load Chinese troops onto Chinese transports and then loan the transports to Ionian Islands or something. The Chinese troops will disembark in Scotland from Chinese ships flying the Ionian flag.

What's 'tech trap'?
Is 'Badboy laundry' when you release an unciv and immediately conquer it again except for the capital? Then you conquer their capital and you only get 1 Badboy for taking that entire country. Then you can release it again.

 

[unmerged(137065)]

So to invade Britain without getting sunk by their navy which is surrounding their island, you load Chinese troops onto Chinese transports and then loan the transports to Ionian Islands or something. The Chinese troops will disembark in Scotland from Chinese ships flying the Ionian flag.

That is right. But your transport will also be attacked. This method will only reduce the landing process to one day.
the correct way is to prepare your transport besides the british's home. Once the war begin your force will land at the same day. If Uk navy occupay every possible landing territory, you have no chance to land (Fortunately this will not happen,there will always be a weak point, one day is enough)

What's 'tech trap'?
Is 'Badboy laundry' when you release an unciv and immediately conquer it again except for the capital? Then you conquer their capital and you only get 1 Badboy for taking that entire country. Then you can release it again

That is right. but usually I will put two uncivilized countries together (toally around 20 provinces) Once, I conquer all provinces from A and lose all to B in the same year (lose province will reduce Badboy,conquer from an uncivilized nation will not increase badboy). After 5 years, I will conquer all provinces from B and lose all to A. I will let these A B country independent until one day that I don't care about increase my Bayboy points.

For Tech trap:
You might have different name for this trick. I just directly translated from Chinese. The idea is to make a trap that provides you technology for free.

a blank territory that one great power has many colony buildings except one proince, you hold the last one. If the great power has interest in claim this place they will use one technolgy plus $1500 to buy your colony building. if you sell it, the next day the AI will claim. So you need to buy it back at the same day when you sell it.(trap can be reused).

This is different than tech trade because it does not cost your research porint at all. different nations has different interest on different colony. you can read the AI file to learn where is the best place to make the Tech Trap. It is very important to those developing countries like China.
example: British has interest in Canada, Russia has interest in Alaska.

An upgraded use of Tech trap is: (tested in 103, not sure for revolution)
when AI offers you tech and 1500 to buy your colony building A, Pause, do not click Accept but offer the AI building A plus something for building B plus something else (building B must in the same state) then you can click Accept to the previous offer. Thus you trade nothing (building A is already traded for B) for the tech+1500. The AI till can not claim because you hold another building B.

 

[unmerged(96217)]

I don't know if I understand you right or not. the Loaded land Divisions are not expeditionary force. your transport (Navy) will be send to british allies as expeditionary force.

for VIP:R, it is very difficult to civilize a nation. I have never succeed either. There are some people did it and have AARs (in Chinese).

however, they do not suggest you play towards civilization because it is too costy. look at the following event in VIP:R. VIP:R wants to kill those uncivilized countries FOREVER !

action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME6667A"
command = { type = civilized value = yes }
command = { type = local_setflag which = LIBERAL_REVOLUTION value = 2 } #newly civilized nations should not have Lib Rev fire immediately. Need to develop separate system for them.
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = aristocrats value = -350 }
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = officers value = -350 }
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = capitalists value = -350 }
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = clerks value = -350 }
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = craftsmen value = -350 }
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = farmers value = -350 }
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = labourers value = -350 }
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = clergymen value = -350 }
}

Not to be a jerk or anything but you literally have no idea what you're talking about. the pop_research_mod reduction is because VIP gives Uncivs an extra research boost as their literacy increases so civilizing is easier, if the civilizing event didn't undo the boost then you'd have China generating some 4 research points a month. Civilizing in VIP: R is way easier than in Vanilla and you can actually grab a small unciv and civilize it. the vanilla method of civilizing seems to be meant to be mildly challenging for China and just about impossible for everyone else.

 

[unmerged(106914)]

Not to be a jerk or anything but you literally have no idea what you're talking about. the pop_research_mod reduction is because VIP gives Uncivs an extra research boost as their literacy increases so civilizing is easier, if the civilizing event didn't undo the boost then you'd have China generating some 4 research points a month. Civilizing in VIP: R is way easier than in Vanilla and you can actually grab a small unciv and civilize it. the vanilla method of civilizing seems to be meant to be mildly challenging for China and just about impossible for everyone else.

True. I've played games as Korea, Siam, Abyssinia and Sokoto in VIP:R and have managed to civilise all of them without too much trouble by about 1890. Playing an unciv in VIP is much more fun and rewarding than vanilla.

 

[OHgamer]

I don't know if I understand you right or not. the Loaded land Divisions are not expeditionary force. your transport (Navy) will be send to british allies as expeditionary force.

for VIP:R, it is very difficult to civilize a nation. I have never succeed either. There are some people did it and have AARs (in Chinese).

however, they do not suggest you play towards civilization because it is too costy. look at the following event in VIP:R. VIP:R wants to kill those uncivilized countries FOREVER !

action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME6667A"
command = { type = civilized value = yes }
command = { type = local_setflag which = LIBERAL_REVOLUTION value = 2 } #newly civilized nations should not have Lib Rev fire immediately. Need to develop separate system for them.
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = aristocrats value = -350 }
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = officers value = -350 }
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = capitalists value = -350 }
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = clerks value = -350 }
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = craftsmen value = -350 }
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = farmers value = -350 }
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = labourers value = -350 }
command = { type = pop_research_mod which = clergymen value = -350 }
}

You misunderstand the purpose of this event and the entire system of civilizing in VIP completely.

While you are uncivilized in VIP, as you increase your literacy rate events will fire increasing the pop research mod for each class by 70%. There are IIRC 9 of these depending on rising level of literacy while uncivilized.

Once you civilize, the engine based malus towards research point generation (uncivs only produce one tenth the RPs of civilized nations) is lifted, so all of a sudden you will produce ten times the RPs you were as an unciv. This event you list above (and the others that are tied to the number of boosts you get to RP generation while an unciv) removes the bonuses VIP gives you. Otherwise, you will not only increase RP generation by 10 times thanks to the game engine, but (in this case) also keep the 350% increase in RP generation VIP gives you while you are an unciv.

The events do NOT make it more difficult to play an unciv in VIP, it has the exact opposite effect, making it easier by increasing RP generation towards what you would have if you were civilized as you cross different literacy rate thresholds.

 

[unmerged(137065)]

Not to be a jerk or anything but you literally have no idea what you're talking about. the pop_research_mod reduction is because VIP gives Uncivs an extra research boost as their literacy increases so civilizing is easier, if the civilizing event didn't undo the boost then you'd have China generating some 4 research points a month. Civilizing in VIP: R is way easier than in Vanilla and you can actually grab a small unciv and civilize it. the vanilla method of civilizing seems to be meant to be mildly challenging for China and just about impossible for everyone else.

En..you must be right.
Actually I have not played VIP:R. That is just quoted from the Chinese forum. I will tell them your idea.

Good point, thank you

 

[JoeGiavani]

I've never civilised any country in VIP. Even when I hit the criteria (which I've scaled down), the event doesn't fire and I have to enter it in the console.
Oh and you an civilise China on day 1. Just start a game as china, save, and edit the save file to make yourself civilised. It's what you're doing but faster.

 

[deadmeat1471]

i have the same thing, strange. i dont know why it doesnt fire.

 

[unmerged(106914)]

i have the same thing, strange. i dont know why it doesnt fire.

Strange, the civilise event always fires quickly after I meet all the requirements. The Ministerial Government invention (which you need to civilise), on the other hand, has taken up to six years to fire after I've researched the neccesary techs.

One thing to bear in mind is that the military score displayed rounds up, so if you need a score of 6, you might not get the event even though it says you have a score of 6 displayed. Best in that case to try and get to 7 to make absolutely sure.

 

[Eärendil]

Do you have any suggestions for V:R VIP 0.2? I tried to civilize China in this version and gave up in the 1890s.

Although it's in VIP:R 0.1, I think my Tibetan AAR will provide some useful strategies.

 

[OHgamer]

One thing to bear in mind is that the military score displayed rounds up, so if you need a score of 6, you might not get the event even though it says you have a score of 6 displayed. Best in that case to try and get to 7 to make absolutely sure.

In future versions of VIP:R this requirement for military score will be reduced further. Probably not completely eliminated, but reduced because of the hardcoded malus uncivs have in terms of military score calculation that we can not work around.

 

[Eärendil]

I've never civilised any country in VIP. Even when I hit the criteria (which I've scaled down), the event doesn't fire and I have to enter it in the console.

The problem with the civilising event is that it can take much longer than the 30 days (or whatever the offset is) for it to fire. Last time it took me more than 3 years after I met the criterias IIRC. It will fire eventually though.

 

[RELee]

I didn't even know that there was a Chinese forum for Victoria. It just never even occurred to me.

I am such a bad person.











*kidding*
I'm not a bad person. Just thoughtless.

 

[unmerged(137065)]

:rofl: