Best Tank

[unmerged(21730)]

I think I'll go play Jane's 'USAF', and load up a mission flying the A-10, and take out a bunch of C-5's. See how many shots each one can take, before the whole thing is toast. (not many at all, usually)

There was that game several years ago, "A-10" I think it was. Fantastic game. Graphics wasn't all that hot (standard for back then), but playing that game really gave me an idea of just how tough the A-10 was. Also how mean the arsenal was. I used to love shooting down civilian jet planes with one "burp" from the forward cannon

 

[cdat]

Hands in the air is not the correct training

Good point. I should have qualified that. I meant armor v armor combat experience. From your list I would agree that great britain has some experienced tank crews. There are probably very few experienced tank crews in Israel left from Yom Kippur war. For the others (except Iraq) I don't think they actually engaged in combat against other tanks (could be wrong here).

Yes Iraqi tank crews are experienced in a few things:
1. Giving up
2. Begging for mercy (no joke)
3. Dieing
4. Long road marches toward the rear (our rear. No one could be spared to herd them back, so they were given some MRE's and water and pointed toward the rear elements (read REMF) and they started walking.

 

[cdat]

A-10 is God

Shouldn't the job of the A-10 be handled by helicopters like the Apache anyway?

Or are they tasked for fundamentally different missions?

Ask any tanker and see which supporting platform he would like to have on his side. I betcha every one of them would answer "A-10". When things (like battle plans) go to hell (which they do once the first bullet flies), seeing a Warthog overhead, hearing that famous turbine engine whine and listening to that cannon ripping (thats what it sounds like) away, is the best sight in the world. God, I love 'em (the plane not the pilot). I've never seen an Apache in combat but I have seen them in training (which, by the way was way harder than the war). Whenever the crap hit the fan, an A-10 was always there.

Oh god! I've talked too much and now I went from the best rank to the worst! I'm a butter bar!

 

[unmerged(17791)]

There was that game several years ago, "A-10" I think it was. Fantastic game. Graphics wasn't all that hot (standard for back then), but playing that game really gave me an idea of just how tough the A-10 was. Also how mean the arsenal was. I used to love shooting down civilian jet planes with one "burp" from the forward cannon

There was also another game I played a lot of, Janes 'Fighters Anthology' - it was ok, it had the A-10 in it, and that gun was just way too powerful. Anything in the game, you name it, just point, fire a quick burst, and it's totally destroyed, just like that. Runways, skyscrapers, mountains, well maybe not mountains - but still you get the idea. It didn't matter if it was a tank, or a tree. Only difference is, that one is moving, but the other isn't. But they still die just the same - as easily.

Hardened bunkers - maybe you need to actually hold down the trigger for a full 2 seconds. But no more. You just fly around, and feel like you're in some kind of 'god mode'. And if you land ANY rounds on an enemy fighter, we'll that's all it takes. And you can turn real tight. If you're playing MP, and the other guy's in an A-10, you'e got to be real careful. Anyway, babble babble.

 

[unmerged(24763)]

When I lived in Ft. McCoy Wisconsin back in '93, there was a squadron of A10 there. I remember walking through the nature trails on post and seeing one swooping down to go do a strafe run. You hear a "BURRRRP" and then the thing pulls back up and is gone. I have read a lot about this aircraft and I think it's a shame to see it go. An Apache will NOT fill the same role.

Here is a good story about a battle damaged Warthog in Iraqi Freedom:

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Stories1/001-100/0016_A-10-battle-damage/story0016.htm

 

[unmerged(21730)]

Hee hee, beat you to it (see the pic several posts above)

 

[Henry v. Keiper]

The A-10 and warthogs are surely some of the best tanks ever made.

 

[cdat]

Also....

While I agree that for the most part "shooting range" conditions existed, there were certainly a number of engagements where tanks got in close combat situations at ranges where a T-55/T-72 could have knocked out an M1. Here is an excerpt from a MG Gulf War Vet about one such encounter.

"I said: "My company engaged Iraqi T-55's at point blank (450 meters) range in a sandstorm along the Basra-Baghdad highway during Desert Storm."

I take that back. I was re-reading my notebooks from Desert Storm. The engagement with T-55's in a sandstorm was at Jalibah, not on the Basra-Baghdad Highway. So that would be day two, about 40 hours after we crossed the line of departure. Other than that it's accurate. I have a note that our first engagement was at 455 meters, which is a knife fight for an M1. The sabot barely has time to discard before steel on target. Scary , even a T55 potentially could penetrate an M1A1 at that range, especially if it could get a shot on the flank aspect."

....I don't know if they've fixed this, but back then you couldn't get a "return" on your LRF, it'd show "flashing zero's" and keep the last imputed data in the computer. So trying to engage at less then 400 meters, reduces the systems of the tank.

 

[Micah Goodman 2]

When I lived in Ft. McCoy Wisconsin back in '93, there was a squadron of A10 there. I remember walking through the nature trails on post and seeing one swooping down to go do a strafe run. You hear a "BURRRRP" and then the thing pulls back up and is gone. I have read a lot about this aircraft and I think it's a shame to see it go. An Apache will NOT fill the same role.

Here is a good story about a battle damaged Warthog in Iraqi Freedom:

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Stories1/001-100/0016_A-10-battle-damage/story0016.htm

I saw a whole set of those pictures. The pilot was a woman I believe.

 

[unmerged(21730)]

The A-10 and warthogs are surely some of the best tanks ever made.

Agreed. So were the M4 and the Shermans

 

[unmerged(24763)]

Hey don't forget the M1A2! Ooops, here we go again! :rofl:

 

[cdat]

How right you are.

Cdat, I was stationed at Ft. Hood when the first Armor battalion switched over to the M1A2. I was happily leaving the Army shortly there after as I was totally unimpressed with the unit I had been assigned and after hearing the company groan and moan over having to pull 25% security for one whole night on a screen line I realized that the Army in the US was vastly different than the Army in Germany I decided that it was time for me to say bye-bye to Army green. I personally saw many similar moronic stunts pulled like the one you described in your story. I would not be surprised however if the biggest problem with the M1A2 opponent at the time was not just an equipment issue but a leadership issue as well. I was appalled at how uniformly bad leadership was at my battalion at the time. During my three years in Germany we never had one case of an AWOL soldier, and we had a E-7 with a major Napoleonic complex, and my year at Hood we had five different AWOL cases. It was not just my battalion either; an infantry company that we teamed up with had four AWOL cases for one field problem. I never did get to work on an M1A2 so I can’t say diffinitavly if it was a good tank or not but I suspect that from what you described that the enemy commander had the tactical abilities of a Rock. Hmmm lemme seee bad guys on ridge, no cover fer me. I know! I charge protected enemy. Boy another great West Point education.

Totally agree. I spent 7 years in Germany. That was a REAL Army. Stateside army is a "dog & pony" show. Look pretty for the people! Smile! Shine your boots! Oh well, take the good with the bad. I don't hold a grudge against the Army (I loved my job), but, yes, we most certainly did have a few "rocks" leading the way. When politics come before tactics, its time to move on.

 

[unmerged(17791)]

I think I have the answer he is looking for:

The best tank is... whatever tank cdat is in, naturally...

 

[Ilkhold]

That's why god invented the B-52!

Would a B-52 be able do hit a few blocks of concrete, and would be bombs be able to destroy them? I am a bit surprised at this, because I thought, that bombs wouldn't affect a massive steel - concrete structure much.

 

[unmerged(21730)]

Would a B-52 be able do hit a few blocks of concrete, and would be bombs be able to destroy them? I am a bit surprised at this, because I thought, that bombs wouldn't affect a massive steel - concrete structure much.

Well it would at least throw lots of dirt over it, perhaps covering it. Tanks can roll over the new mounds

 

[Ilkhold]

Well it would at least throw lots of dirt over it, perhaps covering it. Tanks can roll over the new mounds

How much dirt would you need to get a tank safely over that? Should be at least 10 cubic metres if you arrange it well.
I tought moving dirt was a job for a bulldozer, not a strategical bomber

 

[unmerged(21730)]

How much dirt would you need to get a tank safely over that? Should be at least 10 cubic metres if you arrange it well.
I tought moving dirt was a job for a bulldozer, not a strategical bomber

If anything it would make some deep-ass craters in and around the target area. Anyway my point is the B52s would get the job done, damn it!
:rofl:

 

[unmerged(19411)]

cdat -

I agree, those Saddam supporters, and Sunnite Iraqis are very weak.

The thing which makes them weak is their cause, protecting Saddam. I doubt anyone would put much resistance up for that....

Try a country like Iran, you'd have a much, MUCH harder time occupying Iran, infact, you'd fail.

 

[Ilkhold]

If anything it would make some deep-ass craters in and around the target area. Anyway my point is the B52s would get the job done, damn it!
:rofl:

I picture those B-52 bombing the barrier for hours until it is finally covered with earth and then the tanks roll in and are stopped by a gigantic bomb crater chasm

 

[Micah Goodman 2]

cdat -

I agree, those Saddam supporters, and Sunnite Iraqis are very weak.

The thing which makes them weak is their cause, protecting Saddam. I doubt anyone would put much resistance up for that....

Try a country like Iran, you'd have a much, MUCH harder time occupying Iran, infact, you'd fail.

Your argument is correct if you believe that most Iranians prefer their current government. I have heard it reported that the younger (under thirty) Iranians aren’t too pleased with the Imams. Heck who wants to live in a country where you can’t even kiss your wife in public. Not me, though I do prefer kissing her in private. <lecherous Grin>