Has anything fundamentally changed in this patch or is Otto the go to choice as it was in 1.4?
best option for WC with 1.5?
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There is a bit more AE but I don't see how that would push any other country ahead of the Ottos.
You could make a case for England or France still, on location +ability to get a PU or two alone.
One thing rattling around my brain is that annexing a nation now also gives you its colonial nations which means the impetus to prevent others from colonizing is lower as long as you can take the colonial master (Spain or Portugal) at a later time.
This is why I have considered (though have yet to test) Castille. Castille is the only European power west of Muscovy that is large w/o tons of smaller countries in it. France, Austria, and so forth can all be dismantled and rebuilt for low AE and no coring effort. Portugal is easy to vassal, and England can be worked over somewhat early too.
You're a PU with Muscovy away from breaking the game at that point, as long as Denmark holds onto PU
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This is why I have considered (though have yet to test) Castille. Castille is the only European power west of Muscovy that is large w/o tons of smaller countries in it. France, Austria, and so forth can all be dismantled and rebuilt for low AE and no coring effort. Portugal is easy to vassal, and England can be worked over somewhat early too.
You're a PU with Muscovy away from breaking the game at that point, as long as Denmark holds onto PU
On a tenuously related note, what's hilarious is to release Granada, ally Granada, watch Granada fabricate claims all over Castille -- and then declare war and let your ally take a handful of Castillan provinces. The funny part? Castille will form a coalition against Granada, which will allow you to dismantle pretty much the entire country unmolested.
I have a question about Orthodox Ottomans -> HRE Emperor. Most electors are (just barely) too big to force convert and vassalize in one war - is it better to do that in two different wars to get an Orthodox elector vassal or can a Catholic vassal be convinced to vote for their Orthodox overlord? (Background: I took a province from Cologne in my last attempt at this so that I could force convert and vassalize in one war, and the extra AE combined with the other force vassalizations of electors provoked a coalition of literally all of Europe against me. Understandable, since I'm clearly subverting the Empire and that extra province is a lot of AE, but I'm not making that mistake again.)
With relations at 200 (definitely doable for a vassal), I think the vote looks like:
+200 for relations
+50 for vassal
-50 for heretic
-50 for not in Empire
+ Whatever for prestige and legitimacy
Is that 150 and change enough to beat out large Catholic nations in the HRE (like, say, Austria, or even Styria if you release it), or is two wars the safer approach?
With relations at 200 (definitely doable for a vassal), I think the vote looks like:
+200 for relations
+50 for vassal
-50 for heretic
-50 for not in Empire
+ Whatever for prestige and legitimacy
Is that 150 and change enough to beat out large Catholic nations in the HRE (like, say, Austria, or even Styria if you release it), or is two wars the safer approach?
The best option in 1.5 for a WC is to wait for 1.6. Current AE is worse than 1.3, and it was so widely criticized then that Paradox lessened it for 1.4. When they made the changes for 1.5 they reverted to too much AE, with nerfs to the things that would allow players to get rid of that AE faster (like the completed Religious Idea Group being lowered from 100% to 50% AE reduction). Paradox needs to tweak things, but they are in no hurry to do it. I know that the amount that I have played this game since the release of 1.5 has diminished by a HUGE amount. I know I am very annoyed that they seem more interested in putting out another DLC, than getting the current game to a better place. I think they need to fix what they have before they try to add more.
So, I say again.....wait for 1.6.
So, I say again.....wait for 1.6.
People will get it in 1.5. It's still possible through becoming emperor and using release/re-feed tactics to get the majority of Europe without much AE. Byzantine can be fed, only to make the Ottoman holdings in the Middle East "distant overseas colonies" after that. Hordes offer little resistance, colonial dependencies switch hands now, and everyone in Asia and Africa can be pushed into a protectorate...after all you just capped all the colonials for yourself. Stopping Muscovy means that it's doable in 1.5, and without a lot of coring.
go go PU wars... That's the easiest way to get the big nations, then after that.. who cares about small nations getting into a coalition against you?
Other than the Ottomans, there's little outside of Europe that will slow you down.
Other than the Ottomans, there's little outside of Europe that will slow you down.
Italy is another option. It's coring reduction is almost as high as Ottomans and you have a much easier time as the HRE.
You don't need to core and I really don't recommend WC in 1.5. It's boring as hell. It was pretty bad before, but 1.5 is the worst possible patch for a WC, fun wise.
You can't vassal feed, so you have to ally feed. Let your allies get provinces, so you don't get AE or OE. Let's say you want to conquer Poland. You release Mazovia and ally it. DoW Poland, chase their forces around and don't siege. Let mazovia siege everything, give it every province you can. Help it fight rebels. Vassalize Poland asap, DoW Mazovia, get Poland's cores back. Rinse and repeat with every other big nation.
Well, nation wise, I'd say the best ones are:
Otto - great NIs, good position to stop Muscovy and to war rotate (spread AE).
England - HYW, can stop Muscovy.
Muscovy - good NIs, good position to war rotate, only real threat as a colonizer (no CN or overseas colonies).
Austria - emperor, good NIs, PU missions, good position.
Italy isn't a good option atm. 1.5 destroyed its snowball. You can't go in an annex spree at game start, you can't vassalize electors quickly to become emperor early and you can't use alliances to stop Muscovy anymore.
You can't vassal feed, so you have to ally feed. Let your allies get provinces, so you don't get AE or OE. Let's say you want to conquer Poland. You release Mazovia and ally it. DoW Poland, chase their forces around and don't siege. Let mazovia siege everything, give it every province you can. Help it fight rebels. Vassalize Poland asap, DoW Mazovia, get Poland's cores back. Rinse and repeat with every other big nation.
Well, nation wise, I'd say the best ones are:
Otto - great NIs, good position to stop Muscovy and to war rotate (spread AE).
England - HYW, can stop Muscovy.
Muscovy - good NIs, good position to war rotate, only real threat as a colonizer (no CN or overseas colonies).
Austria - emperor, good NIs, PU missions, good position.
Italy isn't a good option atm. 1.5 destroyed its snowball. You can't go in an annex spree at game start, you can't vassalize electors quickly to become emperor early and you can't use alliances to stop Muscovy anymore.
I do not agree. From 1444 to 1454 I attacked and vassalized 2 electors -Bradengburg and Saxony-, and I attacked to form PU against Bohemia and Poland, and there was finally a large coalition that was disolved in 10 years, but that being Austria, allied with France, Poland, Bohemia, Saxony and Luxemburg was a piece of cake.
The biggest problem with the game is coring costs: around 300 admin points per province, instead of 120 -with no bonus-.
I'm Emperor as Italy starting as Milan played entirely as 1.5 . Had no problems going on an annex spree and started the game taking a stab hit to conquer Rome.
As orthodox Otto, I usually just vassalize 3 electors and release styria. Then you are just 2 wars away from vassalizing Austria which instantly transfers the Emperorship to you if you increased relations with vassals in the truce periods, you can then revoke about 20 years later. All in all right around 1500 is usually when I manage to revoke.
I wonder, how do you conquer "high-tax part" of Asia now in 1.5?
- I can take provinces by myself and core them but that takes a lot of time for large empire and OE gets to 100% in no time,
- I cannot vassalize and later annex nations like in Europe because they're not advanced enough (only protectorates are possible),
- I cannot sell provinces to my vassals because they have no cores or claims there.
I converted Empire of Hispania from CK2 and now as Spanish Empire I'm trying to paint as much of the map yellow as possible
- I can take provinces by myself and core them but that takes a lot of time for large empire and OE gets to 100% in no time,
- I cannot vassalize and later annex nations like in Europe because they're not advanced enough (only protectorates are possible),
- I cannot sell provinces to my vassals because they have no cores or claims there.
I converted Empire of Hispania from CK2 and now as Spanish Empire I'm trying to paint as much of the map yellow as possible
I think the above is pretty accurate. The I dunno how you can do it with MOS. I think there are 2 major (and one minor) requirement and it's all about position to fill the first 2.
1. You must be in a position to stop the colonizers (all of them--including any HRE OPMs) before they round the cape.
2. You must be in a position to stop MOS from getting into Siberia (though you have some leeway here if you can get into a PU with them, then that's great)
3. And the minor, to my dismay, you must be involved in North America early by removing NA OPMs, so that your CN's do not create protectorates because if they do, you will have to hope that the protectorates westernize or you cannot declare war on them due to a bug.
I'm on my 5th WC attempt. Each time you learn something new; and I've been pretty close 3/4 times. Dreadfully close the last time.
England, so far, has been the easiest because you are in the best position period. Good NI's, and as ikkisis says, you can stop All colonizers and MOS pretty easily. 1.5 may have made it untenable because France might be VERY difficult to beat. Still, even without PU'ing France you might be able to do it as France is relatively easy to break up.
I'm not sure Italy isn't untenable (I might give it a go), since I thought the key in stopping MOS is really just getting up there and getting a platform to which to bash MOS in. Ally with LIT and take a small OPM vassal. Work from there.
Otto's are also great. My one attempt stalled because I did not stop Portugal from colonizing (thinking I can just sweep there colonies up later). Unfortunately, an unintended benefit was running into giant Westernized Indian and Chinese tech nations which is just too much of a slog to go through. I would have made it with ease if I could protectorate them (I gave up in 1690 when I ran into westernized Malwa and saw Japan and Ming westernizing too.) I'll probably give this another shot. The Core reduction skills just make managing OE so much easier.
Also, one key item you need to do for WC--as I found out--is to center your strategy to release countries with cores asap. They still disappear for one reason or another, for example I had Styria disappear while invading Austria once--for (no?) apparent reason. It was there in 1550 in one war (where I Could release) and then gone 5 years later. Same with Mazovia, Maldovia, Tunisia; so just be aware that it still happens. I believe that it has something to do with culture converting which the AI now does.
I've never found Ae to be particularly a problem in 1.3 or 1.5.
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Revoke around 1500s sounds incredibly early. I'd love to see a video of how one could achieve this. Especially as a non-catholic.