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Doctor Machete

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In the late game when it has 21,000 EHP it's even better. (The most an assault can get is 8,400).
But assaults and heavies usually have a lot more firepower, and they can pack longer range firepower, as well as more tools to manage heat for using JJs at the same time. You can cheese most five skull missions with a single Marauder, sometimes without being shot once (depending on their number and how many of them have Sensor Lock), a bit harder (or as easy but for a somewhat smaller set of 5-sk missions) with some top tier assaults, and so on with other high tier assaults, then other heavies...

EHP? What does it mean, Edmon?
I think he means effective hit points, how many virtual armor+struct points you have taking into account damage reduction and evasion.
 
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Shark7

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But assaults and heavies usually have a lot more firepower, and they can pack longer range firepower, as well as more tools to manage heat for using JJs at the same time. You can cheese most five skull missions with a single Marauder, sometimes without being shot once (depending on their number and how many of them have Sensor Lock), a bit harder (or as easy but for a somewhat smaller set of 5-sk missions) with some top tier assaults, and so on with other high tier assaults, then other heavies...


I think he means effective hit points, how many virtual armor+struct points you have taking into account damage reduction and evasion.
And this is what makes the Firestarter the best mech in game IMO. It is a light, so no penalties for chassis size, it is very fast and jump capable, meaning you can design it to fit your playstyle, and in the hands of a high piloting skill mechwarrior, it is very, very hard for the AI to hit. I have routinely taken a lance of Firestarters on 5 skull missions and walked away with only minor damage. You simply can't do that with heavier mechs.
 

Doctor Machete

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And this is what makes the Firestarter the best mech in game IMO. It is a light, so no penalties for chassis size, it is very fast and jump capable, meaning you can design it to fit your playstyle, and in the hands of a high piloting skill mechwarrior, it is very, very hard for the AI to hit. I have routinely taken a lance of Firestarters on 5 skull missions and walked away with only minor damage.
How that makes the FS the best game when you can accomplish pretty much the same with just one (heavier) mech?.


You simply can't do that with heavier mechs.
I can routinely take a single Marauder and complete most five skull missions (meaning non time limited or requiring more than one mech) with minor or no damage at all. As I said, sometimes I'm not even fired upon once, no "not hit" but not fired upon, they don't get even the opportunity to miss. And if I can do it then any experienced player can do it, I'm not very into strategy games and I'm not exactly a genius player.










Also, I've played a LOT with a mech like the ASN. Two solo careers (always using only one mech), one normal settings and another one ironman with 1.0 diff, most of the time using the ASN until the last few months (sold everything at the start to specifically buy that mech and a Coil-L), ending both with a Marauder. There is a whole world of difference between both. I can do up to two skull missions (more or less) with the ASN, but more than one full armored medium in the opfor side and already becomes hard.
 

Antediluvian Monster

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Firestarter is the "best" mech in the game.

Change my mind :D.
Depends on how much you rely on the light 'mech reserving ability. Or if you want to make it into a flamer boat. If you don't there isn't much reason to pick Firestarter over PXH-1B as Firestarter is slower, less heat efficient, can carry 11.5 tons less, has lower max armour and lacks the +20% damage bonus. If you are fitting a hit defense gyro the hardpoints aren't too different either, since Firestarter has many on the torso (PXH-1B is arguably bit undersupplied with hardpoints, but it's still sufficient to one-shot everything).
 

Edmon

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Honestly in heavy metal is doesn't matter what mech you use. Even the Cicada is OP. I used one with arm mods to clean out 5 skull missions just to prove that I could. The global increase to evasion of an additional +3 in heavy metal made the game at least 15% easier for the player if not more and allows even mediums and some heavies to evasion stack. Previously, only lights could actually achieve it readily.
 

Shark7

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Honestly in heavy metal is doesn't matter what mech you use. Even the Cicada is OP. I used one with arm mods to clean out 5 skull missions just to prove that I could. The global increase to evasion of an additional +3 in heavy metal made the game at least 15% easier for the player if not more and allows even mediums and some heavies to evasion stack. Previously, only lights could actually achieve it readily.
Which is why I'm playing a mod that reverts the game back to the previous evasion model. It means I actually have to work for it when I play. And still the Firestarter makes it relatively easy.

HBS made evasion too OP in my opinion. Because if the Cicada 2A is useful, then it means they had to have gone over-board. :D
 

Antediluvian Monster

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How did the previous evasion model benefit light 'mechs more than mediums again? I mostly played around release before HM, and can't quite recall. Was it just the extra 5% penalty to be hit being relatively more significant?

I have hard time believing 5% extra penalty, even if relatively more important, makes a 6/9/6 'mech with 16.5 ton loadout superior to 6/9/8 'mech with 38 ton effective loadout.
 
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Edmon

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How did the previous evasion model benefit light 'mechs more than mediums again? I mostly played around release before HM, and can't quite recall. Was it just the extra 5% penalty to be hit being relatively more significant?

I have hard time believing 5% extra penalty, even if relatively more important, makes a 6/9/6 'mech with 16.5 ton loadout superior to 6/9/8 'mech with 38 ton effective loadout.
Previously a light could get +3 for being a light and +3 from a defense gyro. A medium could only get +1 for being a medium and +3 for a gyro.

Long story short, both can get an additional +3 now (including heavies and assasults) and this means a medium can evade slightly better than a light used to be able to. A light is now totally insane and basically can't be harmed unless you make some MASSIVE misplays.
 

Shark7

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So previously, the bigger the mech, the bigger the bulls-eye on it. It just meant that larger mechs were easier to hit, but light mechs weren't impossible. The way heavy metal does it, big mechs are harder to hit, and as Edmon points out, the lights might as well have a cloaking device on them, the AI just can't hit them unless you make a mistake.

Some folks will argue that HM is more like TT, and in some ways it is true. But the reason you didn't hit targets in TT was due to the rules and the fact that most of your pilots were not 10/10/10/10 skill level. Most of the the TT games I played were with 4 gun 5 piloting pilots, which would make them 6/5 equivalent for this game (if I am remembering the TT rules correctly).

Take average pilots in light mechs under the HM rules, and your lucky if you can hit the AI, much less have them hit you.
 

Doctor Machete

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Honestly in heavy metal is doesn't matter what mech you use. Even the Cicada is OP. I used one with arm mods to clean out 5 skull missions just to prove that I could. The global increase to evasion of an additional +3 in heavy metal made the game at least 15% easier for the player if not more and allows even mediums and some heavies to evasion stack. Previously, only lights could actually achieve it readily.
I think you overestimate evasion for mechs other than lights. Yes, that's of the utter most importance for light mechs, but only because they lack firepower and cooling for sustainable damage while jumping (if you add JJs). For a heavy-assault, while still something to consider you don't rely on it, but you may rely on long range plus firepower plus LoS management using JJs in order to avoid damage or nullify foes before they can deal any.

If you take any of my above builds of the screenshots, remove the Gyro, take a 9-piloting merc instead of a maxed one and it won't make a lot of difference most of the time. In contrast, if you use medium range weapons or no Rangefinder that's going to have a huge impact for sure, difficulty will increase dramatically. Even more if you remove the JJs. You still can very easily clear most five skull missions with a single assault lacking Gyro and only nine in piloting.
 

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I am running my first career longer than a couple of days, now I reached Day 600 and finally I completed the 3D and 3R (8 pieces game). To be honest: since I have the marauders, it is sooo easy going. I can't imagine having a better setup, even LosTech mechs or my prefered setups from the camapign. And I have not all the eqipment to maximize theier performcance.
 

Marauder3D

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I picked up a 3R as my first heavy, and a 2R in pirate shops a few hundred days after that. They pretty much trivialized the mid game. Even if you decide not to headshot everything that moves, once you gear them up, they are pretty much killing machines.

So much so, that I'm now now running the 5 star missions at the end of the career with the Bullshark, Atlas II, Marauder 2R, and Marauder 3R. Just no reason to use a slower assault when I can use a faster Marauder and get the job done.
 

MeiSooHaityu

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Yeah, but an Anni with 4x UAC10++ (2 x 72 damage per weapon) is soooo much fun.
I'm getting by with 2 LBX10s and 2 A/C 10s in mine, however as soon as I save up some UA/C10s, I'm making some changes :D
 

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An alpha strike generates an incredible amount of damage, but a lot of heat as well. Unless I'm desperate, I tend to fire 2 at a time and alternate between arms and torso or left and right to manage heat and recoil effects. Working through a campaign re-run and about to go Grave Robbing with this setup.
 

Prussian Havoc

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In BATTLETECH Multiplayer, where Soloing is called 1v1 and where Mech Drafts can see Quad-Firestarters facing off against Quad-Firestarters... this is all just another day. : )