Best idea groups.

[Hari ganesh]

Im attempting a world conquest .Which are the best idea groups to choose irrespective of the nation im playing as.

 

[987655mm]

Offensive is always a good option because of forced march. Other than that it is very situational.

 

[crusaderking]

Humanism is pretty useful for WC too.

 

[hitchens]

I find humanism to be very very good. Seems to reduce rebellions by 90% or so.
Also the millitary ideas that gives leader shock+fire. When you get those 6'er generals you can really feel where that money went

 

[Seraphithan]

Offensive is always a good option because of forced march. Other than that it is very situational.

Also +20% siege ability. That is a significant boost and especially early on can safe you more manpower and WE than a straight boost to manpower.

Admin for -25% coring cost (and time). Expansion for the CB on Asia (no border required have to be western, eastern or ottoman tech though). If you have enough admin points to finish both you also get a policy that reduces coring cost by another 10%, if you core more than 6 BT a year on average this is a straight admin gain even though you are paying with admin for the policy.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The country matters. As an Asian nation you'd almost always want exploration early. If you're France I'm pretty sure you can win even if you open up espionage --> naval --> religious and stay Catholic lol.

Expansion really helps if you want to chain protectorate Asia though.

 

[FrosT37]

Influence, Offensive and Humanist are very good choices for WC.

 

[Krajzen]

I decided to rate Idea Groups by their usefulness during WC Or rather, write down the best ideas for WC from proper groups.

Ideas I don't even mention here are those not dealing with 'world conquest'. Ideas in blue are particularly strong.


administrative



INNOVATIVE - 8/10, powerful except reduce inflation smaller cost (meh...) and prestige decay. But dat bonuses to WE and Tradition are amazing while others are good + Innovative Events are very nice.

Pragmatism: -25% Mercenary cost
Scientific Revolution: -5% Technology cost
Knowledge Transfer-2% Yearly Army/Navy Tradition decay
Optimism: -0.05 Monthly war exhaustion
Formalized Officer Corps: +1 Leader(s) without upkeep
Bonus: : -25% Advisor costs


RELIGIOUS - 6/10 if you want to convert everyone on your religion to avoid intolerance then it is absolutely perfect group, otherwise don't bother taking it although first and third ideas are epic.

Deus Vult: Permanent casus belli against neighboring heathens and heretics
Church Attendance Duty: -25% Stability cost modifier


ECONOMIC - 3/10 for WC, meh. You won't conquer world with taxes, loans and reducing inflation.


EXPANSION - 5/10 nice if you also wanna to dominate in colonization/trade, otherwise don't bother although completion bonus is amazing.

Additional Colonists: +1 Colonists
Additional Diplomats: +1 Diplomatic relations
Bonus: Permanent Casus Belli against Indian, Chinese and Nomad tech group nations if own tech group is Western, Eastern or Ottoman.


ADMINISTRATIVE - 7.5/10, you can smarm the world with mercenaries and easily core everything.

Organized Mercenary Payments: -25% Mercenary cost
Core-creation cost.png Adaptability: -25% Core-creation cost
Benefits for Mercenaries: -33% Mercenary maintenance
Mercenary Recruitment: +50% Available mercenaries
Adm tech cost modifier.png Civil Service: -10% Administrative technology cost


HUMANIST - 10/10 Jesus Christ Man just check those ideas... Had a Commonwealth Humanist game, incredible idea group.

Tolerance: +25% Religious unity
Local Traditions: -2 National revolt risk
Ecumenism: +3 Tolerance of heretics
Indirect Rule: -10 Years of nationalism
Cultural Ties: -50% Accepted culture threshold
Benevolence: +33% Better relations over time
Humanist Tolerance: +3 Tolerance of heathens
Bonus: -10% Idea cost


diplomatic

DIPLOMATIC - 7.5/10 makes diplomacy much easier, also final idea is brilliant as it reduces stability hits by 1 so wars without CB are much more viable.

Foreign Embassies: +1 Diplomats
Cabinet: +1 Diplomatic relations
War Cabinet: -33% Cost of reducing war exhaustion
Benign Diplomats: +25% Improve relations
Experienced Diplomats: +3 Diplomatic reputation
Flexible Negotiations:-25% Unjustified demands, -5% Aggressive expansion impact
Bonus: Lowered impact on stability from diplomatic actions


INFLUENCE - 7/10 it probably can save you a lot of time.

Claim Fabrication: -33% Time to fabricate claims
Integrated Elites: -25% Diplomatic annexation cost
State Propaganda: -10% Aggressive expansion impact
Diplomatic Influence: +5 Diplomatic reputation
Postal Service: -25% Envoy travel time, +10% Imperial authority
Marcher Lords: +33% Subject forcelimits contribution
Bonus: +1 Diplomatic relations


TRADE - ??? I rate it 9/10 in general - really lot of cash - not sure about this in WC although it probably still works very good. On the other hand, if whole world embargoes you...


ESPIONAGE - 1/10 - the definition of meh. It would be 3/10 even for non-WC games.


EXPLORATON - ??? In general 8/10 as it is almost exclusive way to colonize, not so useful in WC as you can simply wait on other countries to explore and then conquer.


MARITIME - 2/10, still don't get the purpose of this idea group. I like only +50% blockade efficiency.



military


ARISTOCRATIC - 8/10 strong military bonuses, easier diplomacy and cheaper military techs, what's not to like?

Noble Knights: -15% Cavalry cost, +10% Cavalry combat ability
Serfdom: +25% National manpower modifier
Noble Officers: +1 Land leader shock
International Nobility: +1 Diplomats
Noble Resilience: -20% Cost of reducing war exhaustion
Military Traditions: -10% Military technology cost
Bonus: +1 Leader(s) without upkeep


alternate to previous group, PLUTOCRATIC - 7/10 not that strong as Aristocratic Ideas while dealing with WC although they are considerable.

Tradition of Payment: +50% Available mercenaries
Abolished Serfdom: +10% Morale of armies
Bill of Rights: -2 National revolt risk
Emancipation: +10% Manpower recovery speed
Bonus: -5% Technology cost

OFFENSIVE - 10/10, strong bonuses to military + strong policies, much faster sieges, 20% bigger army and the only way to get extremely useful Forced March.

Bayonet Leaders: +1 Land leader shock
Superior Firepower: +1 Land leader fire
Engineer Corps: +20% Siege ability
Grand Army: +20% Land forcelimits modifier
Esprit de Corps: +5% Discipline
Bonus: Can issue Forced March orders: Unit moves 50% faster but consumes 2 military monarch power per province moved. No attrition impact.


DEFENSIVE - 8/10, not that good since they are - obviously - more defensive bounses, but still quite strong bonuses for waging total wars.

Battlefield Commissions: +1 Yearly army tradition
Military Drill: +15% Morale of armies
Improved Maneuver: +1 Land leader maneuver
Regimental System: -10% Land maintenance modifier
Supply Trains: +33% Reinforce speed
Improved Foraging: -25% Land attrition

QUALITY - 7.5/10, while bonuses here are strong and hard to get in other ways - especially epic bonus +7.5% to discipline - few of them are not-so-poweful naval bonuses + no ponus here helps with actually maintaining army.

Private to Marshal:+10% Infantry combat ability
Quality Education: +5% Recover army morale speed
Finest of Horses: +10% Cavalry combat ability
Massed Battery: +10% Artillery combat ability
Bonus: +7.5% Discipline

QUANTITY - 8.5/10, I am not sure what to think about this group - following three ideas here are powerful as hell while other are mediocre. However these three ideas are so strong it is quite worth to take the entire idea group.

Levée en Masse: +50% National manpower modifier
The Young can Serve: +20% Manpower recovery speed
Bonus: +50% Land forcelimits modifier

NAVAL - 5/10, rather meh until you are Western European/Mediterranean nation with EXTREMELY strong naval foes where every bonus is important. Then Naval group offers some strong boni.

Boarding Parties: +1 Naval leader shock
Naval Cadets: +1 Naval leader fire
Oak Forests for Ships: +10% Heavy ship combat ability
Superior Seamanship: +10% Morale of navies
Bonus: +10% Ship durability

 

[dstarsboy]

See the idea groups used the Ottoman WC in the recent thread, I don't think he had any military ideas at all. Sounds like all WC's should focus primarily on anything that increases relations slots and anything that increases colonists, these both should be in full use at all times.

 

[Krajzen]

tl;dr, summary of my previous post.

My personal ranking of WC Idea Groups

1) Offensive - the best idea group for invading whole world with powerful land army. I would rate it 9/10 but Forced March is VERY strong and available only via this group. Also it allows on policies combo with other military groups so you can quickly achieve like 115 - 120% discipline and massacre your poor enemies with minimal effort.

2) Humanist - the best idea group for maintaining and stabilizing extremely huge empires conquered with Offensive group. Absolutely amazing bonuses (although doesn't go well with 'convert everything on my True Faith'), my Commonwealth with 80 provs felt like 20 provs with it.

3) Administrative - you can effectively have much, MUCH bigger army via Administratide IG Mercenaries plus -25% coring cost and -10% ADM tech are amazing and allow on saving thousands of monarch points over the game.

4) Quantity - Jesus Christ you essentially have 50% bigger army with this IG.

5) Innovative - at first glance this group doesn't look extremely strong but it is mistake. -5% for all techs means a lot in a long run and along leader upkeep save you a lot of monarch points, -25% mercenary cost with Administrative IG (and maybe ever Plutocratic group!) means you have almost free instant miltiary forces slower decay of Tradition allows you on much more awesome generals during the entire game, monthly war exhaustion bonus is hella useful during great wars, -25% advisor costs mean you may hire good advisors while normally you wouldn't have enough cash (even more monarch points!)

6) Defensive/Quality/Aristrocratic or Plutocratic -> for even better army

7) Influence/Diplomatic -> for easier dealing with being Very Bad Boy

8) Trade -> normally one of the best IGs, not sure about that in world conquest but probably it still gives tons of cash.

See the idea groups used the Ottoman WC in the recent thread, I don't think he had any military ideas at all. Sounds like all WC's should focus primarily on anything that increases relations slots and anything that increases colonists, these both should be in full use at all times.

Because it is freaking Ottoman Empire! One of like three biggest military powers in the beginning of game, with powerful military ideas and barely any foes to stand against Turkey - good luck with beating France without 10:1 coalition and with no military bonuses at all as medium - size country. I have been occupying almost entire territory of France as Poland/Holland/Hungary/etc but France tends to have insane manpower + very high quality army so I needed to overhelm them via quality/quantity ideas.

Christ, I don't even think such countries as Turkey/France/England/Spain/Russia/Prussia are proper subjects in a discussions like this - World Conquest is always impressive but it is incomparable to do it via them or Ryukyu.

 

[LastSalian]

WC ideas, in other words "expansion" ideas: Administrative (reduce coring costs), Exploration (2 colonizer, colonial CB, conquistadors & explorers), Expansion (overseas CB, colonizer), Influence (reduce diplo-annexation costs, reduce envoy travel time, reduced claim fabrication time, increased IA where applicable, reduced AE).

Special case: Religious. Helps a LOT due to the CB, and to convert your conquered provinces faster.

Everything else is completely situational.

 

[Hari ganesh]

Thanks for the advice everybody

 

[AledlePieux]

Trade -> normally one of the best IGs, not sure about that in world conquest but probably it still gives tons of cash.

WC with a Western power means 12 additional merchants with trade companies, so probably not.
But you are not a Western power, than you might want it...

I would propose humanist, offensive and I like aristocratic and innovative also... but that's more personal feelings.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Rankings are fun. I'll do it too.

Administrative Groups:

Innovative: 6/10

Leaders without upkeep - Underrated, lets you manage more fronts at once
Tradition decay - You will have tradition pretty high anyway from all the conquests but it's nice
WE reduction - Excellent, you're probably warring a ton and this will go a long way to nullifying one of the bad effects of constant war
Advisor Cost - There aren't that many ideas that give you 18-20 ducats per month so easily, which is what you get with +3 advisors here
Tech cost - Okay but we're talking around 600 points/category here, not a critical boost.

Religious: 8/10

Deus Vult - Superiority wars are faster than other kinds and this is one of the few alternatives you get in Europe, for 0 DIP provinces too.
Stability - Cheaper stability is welcome if you're going into truce breaks, or in general
Divine Supremacy - Kind of soft in Europe but helpful elsewhere and you need lots of Sunni land under your thumb.

Economic: 1/10

Economic is for Sub-Saharan and New World nations with lots of gold provinces, so they can avoid spamming down inflation and bankroll buildings to create giant surpluses early. A decent WC attempt swims in money. While some policies are cute this will never beat its alternatives in a WC run as far as I can tell.

Expansion: 10/10

Merchant - Not critical but nice to have one
Diplo relation - Very helpful as you push for more vassals to annex.
Overseas Expansion - Gold star here, this is one of the best WC CBs possible. If you're western, you can rapidly protectorate the majority of Asia in 10-15 years with no risk of coalitions due to the chaining. There probably isn't a single stronger individual idea you can have.

Administrative: 8/10

Core Cost - You take lots of base tax, this makes it take 5 less each time you core it. That adds up quickly, a tech per 120 tax.
Merc Maintenance - Useful before your manpower runs away and then it's junk, but decent early on
Merc Availability - Slight hidden FL boost here too but again good to attempt an early snowball
Goods produced - if you get it early the money might mean something, otherwise it will not

Humanist: 8/10

Unity - helpful if conversions are falling behind and during new conquestsRevolt Risk - -2 is really strong and lets you get away with doing stability games so it's welcome.
Tolerance - both are useful, in fact you might go full-on tolerance decisions and ignore religion entirely depending on NI set (France and Ottos being excellent with this).
Less Nationalism - always welcome as you can rotate anti-rebel stacks up faster.
Culture - pretty helpful early on before you're so big that you don't accept most anyway.

Diplomatic Groups:

Espionage: 1/10

Espionage is junk in SP.

Diplomatic: 8/10

Diplomats - great for more claims, improving relations, long trips, you name it. These guys should usually have something to do.
Relations - Always very helpful
War Exhaustion Cost - Truces are just pieces of paper
Lowered Impact from Diplo actions - Truces are just pieces of paper
Improve relation speed - useful to top off relations early

Trade: 1/10

In a WC game, trade ideas are junk. Some early money is helpful, but this gives you literally nothing else and even crap starts on non-WC attempts like Frankfurt can bankroll FL and +3 advisors by early 1600's. You will always have an option that speeds conquest more.

Exploration: 7/10 or 10/10

If you aren't in Europe, you need this to westernize, become a protectorate, or even just see what you're doing. Its benefits beyond early money (fleece natives) and colonies aren't great, but the exploring part is a gold star ability if you need it.

Maritime: 1/10

You don't need to confirm thalassocracy and you don't need better boats. This isn't going to speed you up at all.

Influence: 7/10

Claim Fabrication - You really want claims whenever not vassal feeding, so this is a big draw.
DIP annex cost - Useful for non-expansion CB nations outside of Europe in particular if you're European, relations slots are finite.
Relations - Always helpful
Envoy travel time - WC involves relations all over the globe, this shines more than it usually does.

Military Groups:

Aristocratic: 7/10

Diplomat - It's as good here as anywhere else and if you're really microing well, they'll be busy for much of the game.
Leader shock - Generals are the most important thing other than tech
War exhaustion - Truces are just pieces of paper
Leader without upkeep - Again, helps with multi-front campaigns

Plutocratic: 5/10

The only appealing ideas are -2 RR and the tech cost; the rest gets scaled out by rapid growth. Not an awful pick early on but you can do better

Offensive: 8/10

Leader shock - Generals are the most important thing other than tech
Leader fire - Generals are the most important thing other than tech
Siege ability - Very nice to have early on before you just start assaulting stuff, it can really speed up wars
Discipline - Numerically comparable to most NIs and a little extra power helps
Forced March - Really gives bait tactics a lift, not a must have but helpful.
Force Limit - It's not huge but it can be nice early

Assault garrison ideas (aka Defensive): 7/10

Morale - Handy but not crucial, can make a big difference in assaults
Reinforce speed - Assaults recover numbers faster, which you want
Tradition - useful but given how much we're fighting probably not crucial
Maneuver - Also boosts reinforce and move speed and combines well with reinforce speed
Attrition resist - Now moving into provinces you assault causes fewer casualties, meaning that you can assault again sooner

Quality: 3/10

Pretty bad in a WC run. You fight better, but most other groups give you more, like faster occupations, an early economic lift, more claims/monarch point savings, or more fronts. You'll be runaway status for over half of the game, and you don't want this early either. It's not a WC fit.

Quantity: 5/10

Manpower recovery - Early on, you might actually need this to a degree
Manpower - Similarly, once you revoke or something you don't, but it can help early
Land FL - Open new fronts sooner, probably the only WC worthy boost
Attrition - Similar to defensive's but not as good.

Quantity doesn't make the WC cut either IMO.

Naval: 1/10

Again, by the time you're fighting colonizers, you're either one yourself and smacking them early or you're really strong and can afford 80+ heavies. No utility in a WC game, and really barely any in SP regardless.

 

[durvas]

1) Offensive - the best idea group for invading whole world with powerful land army. I would rate it 9/10 but Forced March is VERY strong and available only via this group. Also it allows on policies combo with other military groups so you can quickly achieve like 115 - 120% discipline and massacre your poor enemies with minimal effort.

2) Humanist - the best idea group for maintaining and stabilizing extremely huge empires conquered with Offensive group. Absolutely amazing bonuses (although doesn't go well with 'convert everything on my True Faith'), my Commonwealth with 80 provs felt like 20 provs with it.

3) Administrative - you can effectively have much, MUCH bigger army via Administratide IG Mercenaries plus -25% coring cost and -10% ADM tech are amazing and allow on saving thousands of monarch points over the game.

4) Quantity - Jesus Christ you essentially have 50% bigger army with this IG.

5) Innovative - at first glance this group doesn't look extremely strong but it is mistake. -5% for all techs means a lot in a long run and along leader upkeep save you a lot of monarch points, -25% mercenary cost with Administrative IG (and maybe ever Plutocratic group!) means you have almost free instant miltiary forces slower decay of Tradition allows you on much more awesome generals during the entire game, monthly war exhaustion bonus is hella useful during great wars, -25% advisor costs mean you may hire good advisors while normally you wouldn't have enough cash (even more monarch points!)

6) Defensive/Quality/Aristrocratic or Plutocratic -> for even better army

7) Influence/Diplomatic -> for easier dealing with being Very Bad Boy

8) Trade -> normally one of the best IGs, not sure about that in world conquest but probably it still gives tons of cash.

In general, best idea groups depend on the country and end goal (domination or conquest).

You don't need mil ideas at all, even for weaker countries. A slot used on mil ideas is one that you could've used to help you expand faster. Yes, offensive is the best out of the mil ideas, but even its bonuses decrease over time due to pip scaling and that its best bonuses are tied to generals while your armies get larger and more decentralized. You might want to pick up aristocratic real late for the diplomat, but that would be pretty much it.

Humanism is overrated. It's for dealing with rebels, pretty much, and Religious is a better option for that and has many other benefits. It's still good for non-Christian/Islamic countries as their conversion power is gimped, but it's not second best, more like in the middle.

Innovative is also overrated. Yeah, it sounds good at a glance, but there are better options that need to be taken early. By the time you would have the points for Innovative, its bonuses are irrelevant.

Diplomatic and Influence are underrated. They're not top tier but are complimentary to the top tier groups, making all of them better.

In your original post, expansion was underrated, especially for anyone is Europe. The CB is amazing when coupled with exploration. It's a powerful way to blitz Asia early. Countries that have not discovered you can't join a coalition and there are lots of countries that can be outright annexed or trivialized in a single war. It also has good policies like -10% core cost (for adm), +1 missionary (for adm), and +1 colonist (for mil!).

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Humanism is overrated. It's for dealing with rebels, pretty much, and Religious is a better option for that and has many other benefits. It's still good for non-Christian/Islamic countries as their conversion power is gimped, but it's not second best, more like in the middle.

Islamic faiths have the weakest base conversion power in the game. You need to be at full piety and take a decision (that is luck-based on ruler stat) just to match what Eastern can get permanently from 2 decisions. A munchkin in India can easily get 5% from decisions and slap on 2% via deity whenever he feels like it too.

Islam's only point in its favor when it comes to conversion is that it will get more missionaries, from Judea, Rome, and possibly DotF (which also helps with war exhaustion). Because of this, they are arguably better at conversions than the non-Abrahamic stuff still (especially because religious boosts Islamic faiths by 5% against other Islamic faiths, unlike other religions, most of which don't resist conversion much).

 

[durvas]

Islamic faiths have the weakest base conversion power in the game. You need to be at full piety and take a decision (that is luck-based on ruler stat) just to match what Eastern can get permanently from 2 decisions. A munchkin in India can easily get 5% from decisions and slap on 2% via deity whenever he feels like it too.

Islam's only point in its favor when it comes to conversion is that it will get more missionaries, from Judea, Rome, and possibly DotF (which also helps with war exhaustion). Because of this, they are arguably better at conversions than the non-Abrahamic stuff still (especially because religious boosts Islamic faiths by 5% against other Islamic faiths, unlike other religions, most of which don't resist conversion much).

Islam isn't 'arguably' better at conversion. It's clearly better. The 2% less starting strength is negligible compared to the long term benefits of Unify Islam, no -2% malus, extra province missionary and DotF. Most situations simply don't need Islam's better conversion until you get Admin Efficiency and you can do fine until then with all religions. Hinduism has its advantages, hence why I'm doing a Hindu Horde game, but it isn't close to Islam for total conversion ability by mid-game. Plus, Sunni also has +1 tolerance to True Faith innate, +2 from Unify Islam and -1 RR from a Dip 3 or better ruler, thus making Humanist a bonus for Islam, not a necessity. Sure Humanist is nice to have, but it's way overrated by most people and is best once you're well into the game.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I don't like humanist that much but on nations that can get 100% unity while converting nothing at all ever it's a welcome group. It's TOP TIER on Sunni this patch due to the religious civil disorder --> one faith spam bug too, constant +3 stab. Without that, it's still great on nations like Ottos/France due to not actually having to convert anything (even though it's nice when you do). Ottomans can just stock Sunni convert 1 Persian province and feed it to convert most of the stuff out of Turko-Semetic that isn't Sunni, and piety will take care of the rest w/o religious at all, all the while heathens are at max +3 or close depending on legitimacy, covered by the unity.

 

[BarrosRodrigues]

For WC you'll want to save as much ADM as possible to core provinces so with that in mind I did the following in my WC as Frankfurt:
Administrative 7/7 for the -25% coring cost and the last idea that gives a 10% adm tech discount + 14% for the whole idea group so it is worth it if we take it very early
Diplomatic 7/7 for the extra diplomat, +1 relation, -25% diplo province cost and cheaper truce breaks
Religious ideas 7/7 for the Holy war CB, conversion strength helps keeping the religious unity high, -25% stab cost and another -14% to ADM tech cost for the whole group.
Exploration 7/7 to be able to explore, use colonies to fabricate claims and free CB on pagans.
Humanism 2/7 the higher religious unity and -2 RR in the mid to late game is useful while the rest is pretty much only money so it is not worth it.
Influence 3/7 for the cheaper diplo annexation cost

IMHO for a WC wasting idea groups/hundreds of ADM/DIP points in ideas that only give you money is usually a bad trade unless you are the HRE and we're talking about the 1st idea of the influence idea group.

Edit: Innovative is not worth it because Optimism is the 6th ideia so it is much better to be the DoTF instead.

 

[durvas]

Humanism 2/7 the higher religious unity and -2 RR in the mid to late game is useful while the rest is pretty much only money so it is not worth it.

While +3 to heretic tolerance is meh, -10 years of nationalism is great for direct conquest, especially if you get it to stack with other -nationalism modifiers. 10 less years of nationalism doesn't start out with the normal +15 RR and then decay over only 20 years instead of 30, it will actually only start out at +10 RR, as if 10 years had already passed. It's effectively a -5 RR on conquered territory. With Horde ideas, constitutional monarchy, and the policy, it's a -12.5 RR reduction, better than automatic harsh treatment.