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Lucododosor

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Hey guys!
I've never owned Dharma DLC, so I've started playing with government reforms only after the Austria update, and am having great fun experimenting with them. My question is: is there any consensus about the best ones to take? I've seen people commenting that turning into a republic is not actually that good when it comes to expanding - what might be kinda late, since I've already turned into one, but I really wanted to see how that worked (and since the update, gettind rid of nobility proves to be pretty helpful to guarantee more crownland).

What are your thoughts about it?
 
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It is kind of hard to compare since the list of reforms is not on the wiki, it's only in the Dharma PDF manual which you can find Googling, but it is mixed with a lot of stuff which are only for some niche governments or only Dharma.

Nowhere there is a list of which reforms are Dharma-only but I think that very few are.

I personally never pick anything which increases Governing Capacity since I've never been anywhere near it. Kind of sad that before playing Venice I think the limit of 20 provinces was too hard and without any option to increase, but now I own half of Italy and I am like 50% of my governing power without ever having increased it.... feels the challenge was removed completely.

I like more tax, less unrest, more accepted cultures.

I noticed that some reforms are different between Muskovy and Venice ... again hard to tell for sure with zero info on the wiki.

And there is the stupid fact that "Clergy in Admin" gives -10% admin advisor cost while with Dharma it gives 1 free admin policy... I actually own Dharma but play without it because I disliked Trade Companies.
 
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The 'best' is really subjective and depends on your run/goal and current constraints. Say, you take Humanist, it's not as useful to take the extra accepted cultures and maybe take the autonomy reduction since you can get the age bonus anyway.

If we can talk about favorite reforms, I really like some of the Theocratic reforms. I like the Breweries reform. It gives +10% Goods produced, and +75% production efficiency in Grain and +50% production efficiency in Wine. It really makes the most terrible trade good suddenly shine, which I really like.

Another Theocratic one is when you are an Eastern Religion, you can take +5% discipline +10% ICA and a mercenary bonus in one reform (Sohei Warriors). It's niche, since there are hardly any theocracies in East Asia (Tibet only?)

In monarchies, the reforms at tier 5 are the only ones that make me actually think about what I want. +10% Production efficiency (usually my least picked)? Parliament? States vs Generals (underrated reform IMO)?
 
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The 'best' is really subjective and depends on your run/goal and current constraints. Say, you take Humanist, it's not as useful to take the extra accepted cultures and maybe take the autonomy reduction since you can get the age bonus anyway.
Modifier stacking is my favorite way to play this game. More accepted cultures also has the benefit of reducing the RNG of getting wrong culture advisors when you have a large empire.
 
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It depends on what you want.

For WC players generally it goes: expansion, war, stability, everything else.

If you are going for one faith religious reforms are above the rest.

The best reform for expansion is horde, then mughal diwan, then shogunate, rev republic/empire.

The best non-expansion reforms are Prussian Monarchy and Republic, the Kingdom of God, the Pirate republic, and the caliphate.
 
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It depends on what you want.

For WC players generally it goes: expansion, war, stability, everything else.

If you are going for one faith religious reforms are above the rest.

The best reform for expansion is horde, then mughal diwan, then shogunate, rev republic/empire.

The best non-expansion reforms are Prussian Monarchy and Republic, the Kingdom of God, the Pirate republic, and the caliphate.

The only issue with Revolutionary reforms I have is that there are way too many of them, meaning that you either save a ton of points before going revolutionary or you don't unlock half of them by the time the game ends.

But yeah, spot on.
 
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As far as Monarchy is concerned, I always do:

1. Manpower over Tax (Strengthen Noble Privileges). 10% tax is rarely enough to even notice an income boost, and in the few cases where your country is large enough early on to notice it, you don't need the extra 1-3 ducats anyways. 15% manpower, stacked with manpower in a lot of NI's usually removes the need to take Quantity in most cases (it's unironically one of the best government reforms around for militaristic countries).

2. Autonomy Reduction (Centralized Bureaucracy). I never really cared about this modifier... until I lived without it. Combining this with a lot of missions/events/NI's that give another -0.05 allows expansion to be consistently immediately profitable, and in addition to the new patch removing state cap, you can quickly get newly conquered land to 0% autonomy with very little effort. This is in combination with the fact that accepting cultures usually doesn't matter, and I've never needed more culture slots than the base slots + tech slots. The income boost is nonexistent, force limit, manpower, none of it really changes by accepting a culture. The only really unfortunate thing with a lot of unaccepted cultures is it being difficult to find an advisor that you can actually promote mid-late game.

3. Advisor cost, usually (Meritocratic Recruitment). This one means a little less, as the bonuses here are all pretty irrelevant. The admin one is nice if you are hunting very specific policies, but that's extremely niche. Leader cost is usually pretty bad (I guess stacking this with -50% cost from 100% professionalism is a meme?), and most countries already have Nobility as more influential than any other estate, so further buffing that is unnecessary (except as Poland, I guess?). The Burgher one is my favorite in most circumstances as stacking advisor cost, especially as you start using lvl 3-5 advisors, can save you a surprisingly massive amount of money every month. Also, loyal Burghers means even more income. Win-win.

4. Parliament or Absolutism (Parliamentarism || Royal Decree). This section feigns having lots of choices, but in truth these two are the only ones reasonable to pick in 99% of games. States General I suppose could be cool in some circumstances, or if you want to escape a terrible ruler and heir and don't care much otherwise. The 10% production is pure trash, and -0.3% army trad decay is literally unnoticeable. I've stacked to even 2-3% reduced decay and it's just such a worse modifier than yearly army tradition, don't bother with it. Parliament is great as a smaller country, and as a colonizer (there's a debate that you can get over and over that gives a colonist and faster colonies). As a rapidly expanding empire, absolutism is much better though. Once you have too much development, parliament becomes a massive hassle and you're forced to make obscene concessions to even pass one debate (you end up with many dozens if not a hundred seats, it's nuts). Another thing I can say for parliament when playing tall if that granting a province a seat gives it nice bonuses, and when almost all of your provinces have one (because they're all high dev), it's actually a noticeable increase in income.

5. Governing capacity (L'Etat c'est moi). I can't think of when this is not better, unless you're playing a tall Russia (lol?) or historical Ottomans or some country where you're just drowning in capacity. Even for a tall run like Netherlands, you run out of capacity pretty darn quickly when you're developing at kingdom/duchy rank. Even for trade companies, which are territories, you still want capacity over -10% minimum autonomy as TC's take up extra.

6. Absolutism (Political Absolutism). Another one with only one real choice, as Theocracy and Republic are pretty awful by the stage of the game that you come across this. Admin possible policies is just not even worth giving thought.
 
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The best of all is Mughal's Diwan.

Among the ones that are available to all tags Id say the reduction in autonomy in territories since now you can put all the world in TCs.
 

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4. Parliament or Absolutism (Parliamentarism || Royal Decree). This section feigns having lots of choices, but in truth these two are the only ones reasonable to pick in 99% of games. States General I suppose could be cool in some circumstances, or if you want to escape a terrible ruler and heir and don't care much otherwise. The 10% production is pure trash, and -0.3% army trad decay is literally unnoticeable. I've stacked to even 2-3% reduced decay and it's just such a worse modifier than yearly army tradition, don't bother with it. Parliament is great as a smaller country, and as a colonizer (there's a debate that you can get over and over that gives a colonist and faster colonies). As a rapidly expanding empire, absolutism is much better though. Once you have too much development, parliament becomes a massive hassle and you're forced to make obscene concessions to even pass one debate (you end up with many dozens if not a hundred seats, it's nuts). Another thing I can say for parliament when playing tall if that granting a province a seat gives it nice bonuses, and when almost all of your provinces have one (because they're all high dev), it's actually a noticeable increase in income.

Just to offer a situational usage for States General, if you have a bunch of PU's and they're ready for integration you can take States General as a reform and keep picking the democracy option to keep having rulers "die" and trigger the inherit-the-PU function.

Once you're out of valid PU's you switch back to another option :p
 
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5. Governing capacity (L'Etat c'est moi). I can't think of when this is not better, unless you're playing a tall Russia (lol?) or historical Ottomans or some country where you're just drowning in capacity. Even for a tall run like Netherlands, you run out of capacity pretty darn quickly when you're developing at kingdom/duchy rank. Even for trade companies, which are territories, you still want capacity over -10% minimum autonomy as TC's take up extra.
Russia can have huge amounts of territory in Trade Province areas, so I think the -10% minimum autonomy is very good.

I would point out that you can flip back and forward. I used Curtail Noble Privileges specifically to help me get Noble Influence low enough to revoke some Noble Estate Privileges in order to get my Absolutism up.
 

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accepting cultures usually doesn't matter, and I've never needed more culture slots than the base slots + tech slots. The income boost is nonexistent, force limit, manpower, none of it really changes by accepting a culture.

I keep seeing people saying that: "culture is not important, -0.05 autonomy reduction is obviously the better choice", but it doesn't make sense to me. Granted, I'm not great at minmaxing and didn't do the math, but... Penalties for wrong culture are -33% of taxes and manpower, on top of +2 unrest and -2% missionary strength. Getting rid of 33% penalty doesn't sound like "nothing really changes"! I mean, if it comes from "if you are big and strong, penalties in some of your provinces don't really matter", then I can understand it, but in that case why is autonomy reduction so "obviously" more important? In the long run you are going to get to 0% anyway, so it shouldn't really matter if some border provinces will be not fully productive for a few decades. But provinces of unaccepted culture will be 33% less productive, more rebellious and harder to convert forever.
 
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I keep seeing people saying that: "culture is not important, -0.05 autonomy reduction is obviously the better choice", but it doesn't make sense to me. Granted, I'm not great at minmaxing and didn't do the math, but... Penalties for wrong culture are -33% of taxes and manpower, on top of +2 unrest and -2% missionary strength. Getting rid of 33% penalty doesn't sound like "nothing really changes"! I mean, if it comes from "if you are big and strong, penalties in some of your provinces don't really matter", then I can understand it, but in that case why is autonomy reduction so "obviously" more important? In the long run you are going to get to 0% anyway, so it shouldn't really matter if some border provinces will be not fully productive for a few decades. But provinces of unaccepted culture will be 33% less productive, more rebellious and harder to convert forever.

Of course, extra accepted cultures are purely situational thing, while anyone who expands will profit form having the autonomy reduction. But if the situation dictates (for example, if you try to unite the HRE as a non-German or even German who wants to keep Italy and expand to France, or even better, an Indian trying to form Bharat/Hindustan with its 4 different culture groups) then I would suggest to get as many accepted cultures as possible.
 

Astalic

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I played few time with estate general and if you manage it well you can manage to keep good ruler for their lifetime and bad ones for 4 years.
Also no stab hit when the ruler die mean easy perma +3 stabillity.

Aside few reform most of them are good and are a choice often situationnal. (But as many pointed out mughal diwan is OP and it's the best reform in the game)
 

Kanem Bornu

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4. Parliament or Absolutism (Parliamentarism || Royal Decree). This section feigns having lots of choices, but in truth these two are the only ones reasonable to pick in 99% of games. States General I suppose could be cool in some circumstances, or if you want to escape a terrible ruler and heir and don't care much otherwise. The 10% production is pure trash, and -0.3% army trad decay is literally unnoticeable. I've stacked to even 2-3% reduced decay and it's just such a worse modifier than yearly army tradition, don't bother with it. Parliament is great as a smaller country, and as a colonizer (there's a debate that you can get over and over that gives a colonist and faster colonies). As a rapidly expanding empire, absolutism is much better though. Once you have too much development, parliament becomes a massive hassle and you're forced to make obscene concessions to even pass one debate (you end up with many dozens if not a hundred seats, it's nuts). Another thing I can say for parliament when playing tall if that granting a province a seat gives it nice bonuses, and when almost all of your provinces have one (because they're all high dev), it's actually a noticeable increase in income.
With the new estate system, Parliament is a lot weaker than before. Disabling nobility can mean losing +1 mil a month, or whatever other bonuses. The absolutism in this tier is an easy pick every time for me.
 
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Cancerofthehead

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With the new estate system, Parliament is a lot weaker than before. Disabling nobility can mean losing +1 mil a month, or whatever other bonuses. The absolutism in this tier is an easy pick every time for me.
The monthly mil point isn’t the big change (you used to lose the mil point clicks and free generals), but the loss of diets really does make Parliament far worse of a choice than it used to be.
 
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Cancerofthehead

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I keep seeing people saying that: "culture is not important, -0.05 autonomy reduction is obviously the better choice", but it doesn't make sense to me. Granted, I'm not great at minmaxing and didn't do the math, but... Penalties for wrong culture are -33% of taxes and manpower, on top of +2 unrest and -2% missionary strength. Getting rid of 33% penalty doesn't sound like "nothing really changes"! I mean, if it comes from "if you are big and strong, penalties in some of your provinces don't really matter", then I can understand it, but in that case why is autonomy reduction so "obviously" more important? In the long run you are going to get to 0% anyway, so it shouldn't really matter if some border provinces will be not fully productive for a few decades. But provinces of unaccepted culture will be 33% less productive, more rebellious and harder to convert forever.
Most cultures are fairly small. Two accepted cultures gets you a significant benefit in those cultures, the reduced autonomy can benefit your entire empire. That said most of the time large portions of your empire is likely to be sitting at the autonomy floor so I tend to go with the accepted cultures.

Also, a big benefit of accepted cultures, if you take just a few provinces of a large culture and accept it before taking the rest you get a good coring time reduction.
 
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MagentaPhoenix

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Of course, extra accepted cultures are purely situational thing, while anyone who expands will profit form having the autonomy reduction. But if the situation dictates (for example, if you try to unite the HRE as a non-German or even German who wants to keep Italy and expand to France, or even better, an Indian trying to form Bharat/Hindustan with its 4 different culture groups) then I would suggest to get as many accepted cultures as possible.
I would agree if you had to take that reform and/or humanist to accept cultures at all, but you get 4-5 total slots per game anyways. When it comes to regions like Germany or India, a lot of (if not all of) the formables put you to Empire rank, which in Germany's case accepts pretty all of German culture automatically. The reality also is that when it comes to suffering penalties, a lot of cultures are very small and niche, meaning that only a couple of your provinces (usually 5 dev backwaters) are even suffering those penalties. The penalties that you pointed out are also a lot less relevant than they look, unless the culture is something like Turkish (and you own all of Anatolia), Polish (and the AI developed all of that sweet cloth farmland really high), Francien, maybe Castillian in some cases. Take something like Slovak. Less tax and less manpower on a 6-dev mountain province? That's maybe 0.07 of a ducat and 10-50 manpower. Pressburg is a nice province, but even developed to 30 dev it yields maybe 2 ducats of base tax, cut down by 33% is 1.32 ducats, that's a negligible loss, even as a poorer nation like Hungary (who starts with Slovak accepted anyways, iirc). The missionary strength can be undone by hiring an inquisitor and using the state edict, and/or having a zealot ruler. The unrest is not noticeable unless the province has separatism and no recent revolt (it'll revolt anyways unless you have the right modifiers stacked). If there isn't separatism, you won't notice a different unless your stability is extremely low, your ruler is cruel or you're in a disaster. Even then, it would be unlikely to make a difference.
 

holyvigil

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I can see the argument either way for an average 4k dev game.

If your borders are solid and have stopped expanding the extra cultures are clearly better. But if you are always expanding at a WC pace the autonomy is important.
 

Cancerofthehead

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I can see the argument either way for an average 4k dev game.

If your borders are solid and have stopped expanding the extra cultures are clearly better. But if you are always expanding at a WC pace the autonomy is important.
Except if you are doing a WC most of your conquests are not going to be stated and you won’t be increasing autonomy once absolutism hits so most provinces will start at the autonomy floor making autonomy reduction useless once you go into full conquest mode.