Still don't think bureaucracy will be worth it. With the new SoI system? You'll get magistrates like crazy.
Best first national idea in HTTT
- Thread starter HarkovAdm
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Still don't think bureaucracy will be worth it. With the new SoI system? You'll get magistrates like crazy.
How exactly is cultural tradition easy to get to 80%+? It seems the only way to do that is to go Patron of Arts, Guilded Iconography, or wait for Fine Arts academies. That seems obviously too long of a wait for 5 and 6 star advisors.
And also yeah no offense but Bureaucracy seems terrible. I don't think I would even get it if I could choose 15 national ideas.
Cultural decisions ring a bell? Since once you get to 100% it only goes down to 80% for if you hire an advisor, it's not hard to have it consistently in the 90%+ range. Use those spare magistrates every now and then. You can easily trade one off for 10 cultural tradition if you have decent prestige. Throw in the University events (and Fine Arts Academies if you're desperate), and I don't see how you could consistently not have a high cultural tradition.
If I'm going to war often and expanding, Battlefield Commissions is a must, especially early on since there are less good CBs and thus more BB to burn off, meaning more time between wars. Plus, it's much more difficult to keep Army tradition high than cultural tradition. You get Last Jousting Tournament, but it costs a lot more than you want to pay early game. There's the Military Academy building later on, but that's at Land Tech 30. And I guess you can get an advisor to help out, but that takes up a precious slot. Given that generals can be so decisive during war and I always try to have at least two high-level ones hanging around, Battlefield Commissions is a lifesaver.
Playing MEIOU now which nerfed it, which makes me miss it even more.
Playing MEIOU now which nerfed it, which makes me miss it even more.
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One of the things I've changed is I've removed the production_tech requirement on even 6409 (free workshops for Bureaucracy). This makes it a little more useful, as if you take it early on (like some of the AI nations are hardcoded to do), it gives you a chance at getting early workshops. I also greatly decreased the MTTH and requirements, so it's far more likely to fire (50 year MTTH instead of 400 year MTTH).
What spare magistrates? I don't usually have many to spare until at least the 1500s.
Is it actually worth it to spend all your magistrates on cultural tradition (I imagine you'd have to spend at least 15 over the course of the first 25 years)?
Anyways if it is really so easy to get massive amounts of cultural tradition, why don't you go guilded iconography anyway, then just choose the iconoclasm decision later, which gives you a ton of cash and IMPROVES taxes at the expense of negative cultural tradition (?)
Then I'd have to say you're rather over expanding (and therefore needing more magistrates than you can produce), or you're not using them efficiently. After about 25 years or so, I never have an issue with keeping my tradition up. I'm usually getting over 1 magistrate a year after the first few decades. Considering you only need a small handful to get the really useful province decisions out of the way, you'll likely end up with a good number of extras. If you spend them wisely, it's not hard to be consistently at 100% cultural tradition by the 1430's. This will probably be much harder in DW, but right now, it's incredibly easy to do. Saying it's not would be ridiculous, because I've got plenty of saves that suggest otherwise.
What is "over-expanding"? 
And what can give you a rate of 1 magistrate a year by 1430?
And what can give you a rate of 1 magistrate a year by 1430?
Quite easy for large countries (Empire gives +1/year), advanced countries (Admin Republic/Monarchy give +1/year), or the Papal States (+1.5/year). Even a plain old Feudal Monarchy can get to +0.75/year by 1408 (+0.5/year + 0.25/year from Expanded Bureaucracy).
I mean if you can get to government tech 18 'within the first three decades of the game' then my hat is off to you.
Obviously Papal states gets this advantage. The Expanded Bureaucracy decision seems pretty horrible not to mention that it costs a lot of magistrates itself (I assume very early magistrates are the goal). If you can get full centralization then you get a lot of them. Maybe Holland can do this.
Obviously Papal states gets this advantage. The Expanded Bureaucracy decision seems pretty horrible not to mention that it costs a lot of magistrates itself (I assume very early magistrates are the goal). If you can get full centralization then you get a lot of them. Maybe Holland can do this.
Empire is the easiest way, and it's easy to pull off with the big catholic powers or the ottomans/timurids. I expect expand the bureaucracy will be a no-brainer for SP now, whereas you "might" not have enacted it before if you got empire quick. I don't see why it's so horrible. Taxes are crap income most games, and, at least in single player, 1 rank of revolt risk that just gets negated by religious tolerance on home provinces is easy to handle. You might notice that 1 revolt risk during the reformation or taking provinces from another religion until you get courthouses anyway, which will be easier to build with more magistrates.
I might take bureaucracy as a 3rd or 4th idea as a european now. I'll have to see those new events to really decide.
I might take bureaucracy as a 3rd or 4th idea as a european now. I'll have to see those new events to really decide.
I can't get CT up so fast, pretty new to the game, so I think NB is the best first NI with countries like holland, trade-oriented.
Better crush Burgundy than researching techs 7 years ahed and trading competition starts to be a factor much later.
Actually I don't know how many country can be defined 'like Holland', if any
Better crush Burgundy than researching techs 7 years ahed and trading competition starts to be a factor much later.
Actually I don't know how many country can be defined 'like Holland', if any
Very interresting that quite a few people say that the -8% tax from gilded iconography is absolutely devastating but +5% from bureucracy is absolutely worthless. And you also get some missionary bonus from guilded iconography.
So my first picks are often
1. Church attendance duty -> NTP. Yes even for those none trader nations since even those can trade somewhat succesfully with NTP, going from 0 trading to a little more trading is worth just as much as going from a lot of trading to a little more lot of trading..
2. National bank. I need advisors to cut my BB.
For some reason I have never felt the need for military drill even if I know it's a good NI. I win the wars anyway so it's better to focus on the economy..
And you also get some missionary bonus from guilded iconography.So my first picks are often
1. Church attendance duty -> NTP. Yes even for those none trader nations since even those can trade somewhat succesfully with NTP, going from 0 trading to a little more trading is worth just as much as going from a lot of trading to a little more lot of trading..
2. National bank. I need advisors to cut my BB.
For some reason I have never felt the need for military drill even if I know it's a good NI. I win the wars anyway so it's better to focus on the economy..
Fact is military drill is good for the economy. More so then for winning wars. Because if you have MD you can cut down maintanace to 20% and still beat the rebels asses in peacetime.
that´s basically why I choose it when i´m not a trading nation...but mostly because then you don´t have to adjust the maintenance slider every time you get rebels
Everyone hating on Bureaucracy... I took this in my current game. Should I just switch now and take the stability hit? I'm gov tech 7 and it's going to be a while until 9, even though I'm 5 years ahead of the curve. Or is it really not as crap as you guys are making out?
