Best first national idea in HTTT

[HarkovAdm]

In a generic situation, where you have no pressing plans or needs (early QFTNW, missionaries, hardcore trading, life or death war).

Which is the best long term choice?

So far as I can tell in the old days it used to be National Bank or the +50% manpower one because manpower recovery rate is so critical. Now you can't get the latter until later techs and you can use cultural tradition to produce master of the mint advisors.

I guess another assumption is that I am expanding at a steady rate starting in 1399. No hyperteching or small trading nation for me.

Candidates:

Patron of the Arts? It takes quite a while to get enough cultural tradition to buy skill 5 or 6 advisors. And you no longer get prestige from the idea.

Church Attendance Duty? Assuming you can pay for Gilded Iconography, is this the way to go for most Catholic nations? The -8% tax penalty is no fun.

National Bank (assuming monthly income is high)? Advantage would be you can start minting immediately instead of waiting for cultural tradition which can take as long as 20+ years


I realize you can take your pick against the AI but I am wondering what do people in MP games tend to use first in HTTT?

 

[Dorevai]

I tend to go patron of the arts most times. After a few years you're rolling in 6 star advisors whenever you please. Be sure to replace your advisors as your cultural tradition cycles back to 100. You don't want them to all be 80 and die off at the same time.

 

[Junuxx]

Military Drill.

 

[unmerged(11600)]

Military Drill, National Trade Policy, or Patron of the Arts.

-Pat

 

[Jimbob01]

Military Drill.

End of thread in my opinion.

Under most normal circumstances in MP with a 1399 start, Military Drill. It loses its significance later in the game as you tech up, but early game it rules. Try fighting a competent human player who has taken this idea early game and you have not. You are in for a world of pain.
The only time I would ever deviate from Military Drill as my first NI is if I was an isolated country that is not worried about a land war with another human in early game or a trading nation such as Holland who relies on diplomacy for survival instead of fighting, then take an idea like NTP.

 

[HarkovAdm]

Really? Military Drill?

That is the NI I preferred when I first started playing EU3.

I chose it once in a MP game as the Golden Horde (switched from +50% manpower) and boy was I sorry! The +1 morale did not seem to be nearly as important as other battle factors when fighting the Russians (shock value of generals, terrain). I ran out of manpower and wished dearly that I had the +50% modifier.

I know combat is a bit different now than it was back in In Nomine. But as far as I could tell back then Military Drill was a rather noobish NI to pick. I considered it a mistake. Is it better now?

 

[meldok]

If I have to fight a lot then Military Drill if not Patron of Arts.

 

[Junuxx]

@HarkovAdm: Heh. If you run out of manpower as a major power like the GH, then I think you are definitely doing something wrong. I'd only recommend National Conscripts for really manpower-starved nations such as colonial revolters or medium powers with a big trade income but small power base.

 

[unmerged(146053)]

I always picked National Bank first. HOWEVER! After hearing about this Patron of the Arts and using up points getting 6 star advisors.... I'd put my money on that man.

Think about it.

Hire a mint advisor to handle inflation issues (makes national bank kinda useless).

I would than hire 2 tech advisors to focus on your primary strategies. Like keeping the bar low on Land tech but just hiring a 6 star advisor to handle land research.

I'm not sure though. Sounds valid to me at least.

 

[HarkovAdm]

@HarkovAdm: Heh. If you run out of manpower as a major power like the GH, then I think you are definitely doing something wrong.

Well that was my logic at the time!

It was my first MP game vs a bunch of veterans and unfortunately it was sort of me alone vs Muscovy, giant Bohemia, and the Teutons. The first war was something of a draw, I won the second one, then got killed by a huge coalition including China when I missed a session because my internet was down.

Sometimes the +1 morale helped, but most of the time I needed the manpower. I could win a large battle, but the enemy would just print money and produce more troops. I constantly needed a huge monthly flow of replacements.

 

[Junuxx]

Then you either fought too many unfavorable battles or took too much attrition.

 

[HarkovAdm]

o_0 I mean you are assuming I did something wrong.

To be sure I did, but the issue is whether the +1 morale is really the most effective National Idea overall. In my experience battle losses (shock value of general, dice rolls, terrain, concentration) make all the difference in warfare.

Perhaps what you mean is that in a serious fight if you can force the enemy to retreat due to high morale endurance, you can chase and wipe out their force? That would be logical but my experience is that the extra morale rarely made a difference. Is this not the experience of others?

 

[delra]

I'd say Patron of Arts. Even if you get iconography and/or way of tea and/or that muslim thing (can't believe i forgot how it's called, shame on me) you still want patron on top of them to always kick ass with advisers. No NI can give you as big a bonus as three 6 star advisers.

 

[HarkovAdm]

I was actually expecting someone to say that Church Attendance duty is the best, to get Gilded Iconography and just suck up the -8% tax. Does no one hold this opinion?

 

[Grubnessul]

Patron of Arms. Unless you're in really deep trouble, in which case go for military drill.

 

[Junuxx]

I was actually expecting someone to say that Church Attendance duty is the best, to get Gilded Iconography and just suck up the -8% tax. Does no one hold this opinion?

Personally I think the price for Gilded Icons is way too high. But some people advocate taking CAD, enacting Gilded Icons, and then immediately replacing CAD since you no longer need it.

 

[HarkovAdm]

Personally I think the price for Gilded Icons is way too high. But some people advocate taking CAD, enacting Gilded Icons, and then immediately replacing CAD since you no longer need it.

Alright thank you. What I have gathered is that there is no 'obvious' choice. This is good!

 

[unmerged(146053)]

Question: Must you have 100% cultural tradition to score a 6 star advisor? I believe I tried it and only got 5.

 

[Blackluck]

No, 90+. It's usually 5 though (even at 100).

 

[Junuxx]

Question: Must you have 100% cultural tradition to score a 6 star advisor? I believe I tried it and only got 5.

It's pretty simple

0-20 CT: 1 or 2 stars
20-40 CT: 2 or 3 stars
40-60 CT: 3 or 4 stars
60-80 CT: 4 or 5 stars
80-100 CT: 5 or 6 stars