Best Daimyo Ideas?

[Noxatrox]

With the release of the new "Japan" update, it seems as though every daimyo in Japan has been given a unique set of national ideas. Yet while all the daimyo ideas are pretty good, some seem to be way better than the others (perhaps even some of the best in the game).

I was thinking that we could create some kind of tier list to rank the daimyo ideas. Without factoring in anything related to starting conditions (in which Hosokawa and Uesugi have a clear advantage), which daimyo ideas do you think are the best? Which ones aren't that great (i.e. which ones should choose to adopt Japan's ideas upon forming it)? Feel free to explain your choice(s) if you'd like.

 

[Shinkuro Yukinari]

Shimazu Space Marines
No contest.

Look at their bloody ideas and tell me that ain't Prussia incarnate

 

[jhtagana]

Uesugi Asian Marines!

Uesugi ideas
Traditions:
+10% Production efficiency
−1% Yearly army tradition decay
Kanto Kanrei

+1 Diplomatic relation
Yamanouchi and Ogigayatsu Branches

+0.5 Yearly army tradition
Kamakura Office

−25% Reinforce cost
Dragon of Echigo

+10% Morale of armies
Nokizaru

+20% Spy network construction
Agakita-shu

+5% Discipline
Denoku no Ji

−10% Idea cost
Ambition:

+10% Infantry combat ability
Make Asia, Japanese Again! XD

 

[Less2]

Oda is Prussia w/ reduced coring cost and reduced warscore cost.

 

[bbqftw]

Shimazu Space Marines
No contest.

Look at their bloody ideas and tell me that ain't Prussia incarnate
View attachment 321423

Oda > Shimazu

 

[Zwirbaum]

Oda with -coring cost AND province warscore cost AND +3 leader pips wins hands down as best daimyo currently (though I don't remember other daimyo idea sets from the top of my head)

 

[ywxiao]

I like Nanbu best because of the -10% development cost since I'm a tall player, usually only get 4-5k dev by 1700ish.

 

[Szarcas]

Amago has a pretty nice Idea Set as well

 

[Mutagen_Prime]

Oda >>> Shimazu > Uesugi >> Amago.

Oda has the most militarized national idea roster in the game though so Shimazu or sometimes Uesugi could suit your play more if you're looking for a more 'balanced' idea set.

 

[Turbo215]

I find Date to have a pretty good all-round idea set.

 

[Shinkuro Yukinari]

Well, I just beat a 1v8 coalition as Oda and it only took me 8 loans!

 

[ScytheV]

Yeah, Japan beat so many adversaries worldwide to warrant those idea sets! Wait...
I am tired of this wanton japanophilia. If you are gonna base your balance on anime, go make some other games. They will even sell well. In EU4 this looks.. shameful.

 

[Satyratron]

So many good ones to suit any playstyle. been liking Uesugi, but that idea cost reduction as your last idea is unfortunate. If they switched idea cost reduction with reinforcement cost their ideas set would be much more useful!

 

[Alehkra]

Yeah, Japan beat so many adversaries worldwide to warrant those idea sets! Wait...

I am tired of this wanton japanophilia. If you are gonna base your balance on anime, go make some other games. They will even sell well. In EU4 this looks.. shameful.

I mean, not to be "that guy" (though I'm gonna go ahead anyways), but Japan is kind of an interesting case that, while they have pretty much lost every war they've ever been in with foreign powers (the Mongols and Tsarist Russia being notable exceptions), that's typically as a result of being outclassed in pure size and resources to draw on (often combined with let's say turbulent politics). An island nation relatively poor in natural resources can only bring so much to bear on a place like, for instance, China or the United States. However, within those wars their armies usually perform anywhere between pretty decent considering the differences in material, as in the Pacific War, up to routinely trouncing combined Chinese and Korean armies of equal or larger size, even if the naval side and infighting among the leadership ultimately doomed the overall war effort. Those later armies were developed by clans like the Oda during the time period of EUIV.

I guess what I'm saying is that the idea sets more or less make sense historically, even if they could perhaps use a bit of tweaking

 

[KaiserJohan]

Oda ideas has to be some of the best in the game even. Province warscore cost and RCC is godlike in a single idea unlock

Oda with -coring cost AND province warscore cost AND +3 leader pips wins hands down as best daimyo currently (though I don't remember other daimyo idea sets from the top of my head)

Pips are great although slightly less so than before now that I believe pips don't carry over anymore.

 

[Zwirbaum]

Oda ideas has to be some of the best in the game even. Province warscore cost and RCC is godlike in a single idea unlock



Pips are great although slightly less so than before now that I believe pips don't carry over anymore.

I've made quick testing mod and it seems to be true* - question is why and why this change wasn't mentioned anywhere in the patch notes or the balance changes mentioned anywhere?
This is also a little bit misleading with the tooltip.**


* If the pips would carry over then siege pips should be minimum 1 to 6. And usually rolls where 0 or 1.
** - Is it possible to get hold on the updated/new pip generation formula for the generals and dependance on the AT - chance for pips/distribution?***
*** - Because I already do a lot of testing and that's one of the things I look least forward to.

 

[QDI]

I've made quick testing mod and it seems to be true* - question is why and why this change wasn't mentioned anywhere in the patch notes or the balance changes mentioned anywhere?
This is also a little bit misleading with the tooltip.**


* If the pips would carry over then siege pips should be minimum 1 to 6. And usually rolls where 0 or 1.
** - Is it possible to get hold on the updated/new pip generation formula for the generals and dependance on the AT - chance for pips/distribution?***
*** - Because I already do a lot of testing and that's one of the things I look least forward to.

Thank you for testing. I hope we can get the new formula soon.

 

[hashinshin]

Pips are great although slightly less so than before now that I believe pips don't carry over anymore.

... why don't they carry over anymore? I think that deserves a discussion in itself. That makes pip ideas much weaker and more RNG prone when I can't think of a single problematic pip nation

 

[TenshiN]

Oda is simply godlike. Having both morale and infantry power in traditions helps as well. Although, any Japanese tag can have good combat bonuses with "Independent Daimyo" government xD

 

[Mingmung]

I really like Hosokawa for its useful variety.