Best Daimyo for First Japan Game?

[Lord Hoosier]

I was thinking about Ando as I could conquer Ainu and my northern Neighbors to have a one front war on my way to Kyoto, but I was wondering if anyone else had good ideas. Also could some one explain the Sengoku CB in more detail. Is it just a free CB against other daimyos? Finally will an AI daimyo always start the Onin War immediately in the first December 11, or can I expect time to build up my domain?

 

[Mutagen_Prime]

Oda has the most explosively-overpowered miltary ideas in the game, although they don't exist at the 1444 start. They're the Prussia of the east, so to speak. If smashing armies twice the size of your own in sordidly unfavourable terrain conditions is something that might interest you, I would highly recommend you give them a try.

 

[Kathandis]

Oda has the most explosively-overpowered miltary ideas in the game, although they don't exist at the 1444 start. They're the Prussia of the east, so to speak. If smashing armies twice the size of your own in sordidly unfavourable terrain conditions is something that might interest you, I would highly recommend you give them a try.

Oda exists at the start as of this update.

 

[Mutagen_Prime]

Oda exists at the start as of this update.

My bad, I must of skipped ahead to their previous start date on my last post-patch play-through for no reason then. Good to know!

 

[Lord Hoosier]

But what about Sengoku and the Onin War event?

 

[Lord Hoosier]

How about starting as Ashikaga and trying desperately to hold on? Is there really anything interesting to playing as the Shogun right off the bat?

 

[netherlink]

How about starting as Ashikaga and trying desperately to hold on? Is there really anything interesting to playing as the Shogun right off the bat?

Shogun sadly is quiet lame again.
It was really funny some patches ago when you could demand peace to your daimyos, but now it's back to normal, where you painfully wait 50y to finally become japan...

Are the bugs about other vassals of japan fixed? I remember abandoning a run because vassal jianzhou became free after reload...

 

[Lord Hoosier]

Shogun sadly is quiet lame again.
It was really funny some patches ago when you could demand peace to your daimyos, but now it's back to normal, where you painfully wait 50y to finally become japan...

Are the bugs about other vassals of japan fixed? I remember abandoning a run because vassal jianzhou became free after reload...

That is kinda sad, as the Ashikaga Shogunate is always only represented in its twilight before the Sengoku Jidai in most games. The Tokugawa/Oda always steal the show.

 

[Shinkuro Yukinari]

I recommend Shimazu. Ideas almost to the level of Oda, but a much safer starting position

 

[Jules Brunet]

For a first time: Uesugi or Hosokowa. They may not have the best idea, but they are the easiest to start with. Any other OPM may have bette idea (Oda and Shimazu stand out), but are still OPM and may be harder to start with.

 

[ShoGuL]

Definitely Hosokawa. Their ideas really aren't that bad - I am fond of the -dev cost, since you can stack it with Adaptive (the best isolation bonus IMO unless you are going for a One Faith / Culture run) and later take the Mandate of Heaven for -30%. The galley combat ability helps more than you'd think in quickly uniting Japan - controlling the seas makes uniting southern Japan a breeze.

You can probably form Japan in 10-20 years if you do it right. The trick is to juggle OE the first few wars until you can get a situation where you can get to >50% of Japan in one swoop (multiple wars). Then coalitions will stop being a problem and you can immediately annex the rest. Make sure to always improve relations with the Shogun and Ming, one so he won't attack you before you are ready, the other so you can become a tributary when you have united Japan and eat Korea.

Oh, and I wouldn't actually enact the Unite Japan decision until you get diplo tech 8, which triggers the Japanese Tea Culture event. If a Daimyo or Shogunate government doesn't exist, it will never fire.

 

[sr999]

Interesting. I tried out Hosokawa and came unstuck with Ming even at +100. No tributary application was feasible against a huge strategic interests modifier. Ming rivalled me as soon as I took the unify Japan decision and became shogun. Didn't rival back but made no difference. When I later removed my remaining daimyo alliances, Korea and another rival attacked and though I was winning those handily, my manpower started at close to zero and my armies were reducing in size. Then Ming declared on me. All wars still going: though technically outnumbered I've been winning every single naval battle against Ming and Korea without losing a ship (that +10 galley combat is brilliant for that and in anticipation I'd built 5 heavies to Ming's 4). But I'm getting evicted from the continent.

In hindsight I think I made two mistakes: taking Sakhalin + 2 Siberian provinces; and colonizing Taiwan (which gave Ming the opportunity to fabricate a claim).

Thoughts?

 

[ShoGuL]

Interesting. I tried out Hosokawa and came unstuck with Ming even at +100. No tributary application was feasible against a huge strategic interests modifier. Ming rivalled me as soon as I took the unify Japan decision and became shogun. Didn't rival back but made no difference. When I later removed my remaining daimyo alliances, Korea and another rival attacked and though I was winning those handily, my manpower started at close to zero and my armies were reducing in size. Then Ming declared on me. All wars still going: though technically outnumbered I've been winning every single naval battle against Ming and Korea without losing a ship (that +10 galley combat is brilliant for that and in anticipation I'd built 5 heavies to Ming's 4). But I'm getting evicted from the continent.

In hindsight I think I made two mistakes: taking Sakhalin + 2 Siberian provinces; and colonizing Taiwan (which gave Ming the opportunity to fabricate a claim).

Thoughts?

I've been rivalled by Ming as Japan, but never while setting friendly + improving relations. IIRC you can generally become a tributary as soon as you take Kyoto, before you are too strong for him to rival you. I've never colonized Taiwan or gone into Siberia that early, though - I usually go for the Phillipines first, and the New World.

Even if Ming rivals you, it's not the end of the world. The usual trick is to attack him first, beat him at sea, and blockade him until he is willing to make peace. Just before he makes peace, attack Korea or Manchu in a separate war, that way Ming can't help them. Peace Ming, annex Korea or Manchu and then you have a way in. Beating them in later wars is by no means easy, but if you colonize and manage to tank their Mandate, it's manageable. Good luck

 

[sr999]

Thanks for your wise words!

As it happened, after some thought I decided to tough it out (rather than restart looking for tributary status). Peaced out Korea and Haixi (managed a humiliation) while successfully running away from Ming stacks, everyone got away. Then just trashed and blockaded Ming at sea for years. Lost three ships (captured more), killed over 60 (the Hosokawa galley bonus plus my paranoid heavies plus lucked out with 6-shock and 4-shock explorer-admirals for a while), they kept rebuilding! Eventually I was able to peace out for Formosa and a nice wad of money so presumably they were having mandate issues (how can you tell?). Meanwhile I'd annexed all Ming's Philippine tributaries in separate wars. Now while I have truces, I'm cleaning up the remaining 9 provinces in Japan owned by daimyos.

Second round with Ming I'll have a fort finished in Formosa to match the one already in Sakhalin, to tempt the AI into dividing its forces. I would have taken out Korea separately, or at least grab their two mountain forts, hopefully with time to fortify the coastal mountain province conveniently adjacent to both. But I won't have time with only a year between the two truces ending. So I'll take up your suggestion of declaring on Korea just before peacing out Ming (unless they come at me anyway!). After that the plan is to stand and selectively fight Ming in the mountains until Ming breaks, and otherwise try to build up manpower. Money no longer a problem!

1517, taken Exploration (full) and Admin (just 2), Tech up to speed and colonialism embraced. Because of Ming I think I'll be different and take a military idea group when tech 10 rolls around in 1518, which also will take the pressure off admin. Quailty seems optimal given the 4th and 5th Hosakawa ideas will arrive at the same time (+20 force limit, +20 manpower).

 

[heliostellar]

Defending against Ming is not hard as Japan. Make sure to move your army to wherever they are landing theirs once they are locked in place. Also try to bait them into landing in a fortress if possible. I was able to fend off Ming 3 times as Hosokawa just by playing defensively. Just let the war score tick on their unrealized war goal and then you can take gold and war reparations. You’ll be making a ton of money to repay loans. Also, try to use mercs for your infantry to save on manpower.

 

[Northernwwater]

Defending against Ming is not hard as Japan. Make sure to move your army to wherever they are landing theirs once they are locked in place. Also try to bait them into landing in a fortress if possible. I was able to fend off Ming 3 times as Hosokawa just by playing defensively. Just let the war score tick on their unrealized war goal and then you can take gold and war reparations. You’ll be making a ton of money to repay loans. Also, try to use mercs for your infantry to save on manpower.

And keep track of how many transports they have and you'll know their max landing strength.

 

[Lord Hoosier]

But what about the Sengoku CB and the Onin War event. Will it always happen as soon as the game starts by the AI or will you have a period of peaceful breathing room if you do not declare it Dec 11, 1444.