Best Compliance Division?

[Secret Master]

Here's some charts for people. The first is the cumulative stock of equipment produced from Civilian Oversight vs Harsh Quotas:

View attachment 555086

The second is the flow of resources from Civilian Oversight vs Forced Labor:

View attachment 555085

Both of these assume Government in Exile is not a factor.

That's better than I thought, actually. I was estimating that 18 months was the break even point.

BTW my reason behind all of this is I would have thought a better "design" would be the harsher the law the more you actually get. It's sort of based on the following logic. Non-harsh laws would let the occupied country keep almost everything. They are almost an independent country in some regards. While the harsher the law the more you steal and the more you force the occupied people to do work for you. They grow to hate you and therefore you have to have a large army present or they will attack you. You cost is having that army there and not fighting. And the lower your percentage of that garrison requirement the more likely they attack. But if you do have 100% garrison requirements then they don't attack very often.

Well, there's the other weird part to this: with spy missions, you can get compliance past the all important 50% threshold before you capitulate the target. This changes the math of everything, because it becomes possible to even get more than 100% factories with the right occupation policy and enough collaboration effect.

I want to try out a Soviet game where I run collaboration on Germany and then hit them with Liberated Workers when I capitulate them and go to a peace conference. I got 106% factories on Finland this way. I bet I could do better on Germany with enough effort. Can you imagine the Soviet Union with 110% of Germany's factories?

 

[jju_57]

Here's some charts for people. The first is the cumulative stock of equipment produced from Civilian Oversight vs Harsh Quotas:

View attachment 555086

Both of these assume Government in Exile is not a factor.

There's a problem with that first chart. The number of excess days for harsh is a flat 25% which takes 481 days do match (25/.65/.08). So at 481 days both harsh and CO produce the same daily output. In just 19 more days C) gets a 10% boost when it hits 40% compliance and now produces 55% vs. 50% for harsh. To get to 75% (25% more than harsh) it would take 20 /.65 /.08 = 384 more day or a grant total of 884 or year 2 and about 5 months. At this point CO would surely have exceeded harsh. But the chart shows this at year 3.

I ran a spreadsheet based on 100 factories and CO overtook harsh on day 813 in cumulative IC days. That is 2 years 2 months and 23 days. This is the max day that harsh would have exceeded CO.

The other problem is Harsh has a higher garrison cost and larger garrison losses which your chart conveniently ignores.

 

[jju_57]

Just a thought. Shouldn't the best approach be to use CO till you hit 40% compliance to get the 10% boost and then switch to harsh? Your compliance shouldn't move either direction and you get (.65 * 40% compliance) + 10% (compliance boost) + 25% (harsh boost) + 25% (base) = 86% of factories.

 

[Reman]

There's a problem with that first chart. The number of excess days for harsh is a flat 25% which takes 481 days do match (25/.65/.08). So at 481 days both harsh and CO produce the same daily output. In just 19 more days C) gets a 10% boost when it hits 40% compliance and now produces 55% vs. 50% for harsh. To get to 75% (25% more than harsh) it would take 20 /.65 /.08 = 384 more day or a grant total of 884 or year 2 and about 5 months. At this point CO would surely have exceeded harsh. But the chart shows this at year 3.

Civ oversight doesn't match the number of factories of Quotas until day 608. I'm pretty sure you didn't include the decay factor into compliance, i.e. compliance gain is 0.08 - 0.08 * current compliance.

Just a thought. Shouldn't the best approach be to use CO till you hit 40% compliance to get the 10% boost and then switch to harsh? Your compliance shouldn't move either direction and you get (.65 * 40% compliance) + 10% (compliance boost) + 25% (harsh boost) + 25% (base) = 86% of factories.

The effect of Harsh Quotas is strong enough that compliance will go down no matter what situation you're in.

 

[jju_57]

I did not add in any decay as I wasn't even away of any. But I modified the run and on day 520 CO is just over 50 factories which is not day 608. CO overtakes all production on day 878 now. 2 years and just shy of 5 months. This fit my initial rough estimate of day 884 very well. It still means your numbers are off.

BTW as I said where is the reduction for excess garrison costs and additional garrison losses?

 

[walliart]

So if i understand right, if I annex a country at peace conference I am getting way fewer factories now than in 1.8 version.
- Number of factories is first halved because I annex a non core teritory
- From that half I get only 25% under CO or local police and will go to 35% when compliance exceed 40%.
When I play as a minor, the annexation of some other minor nations was the way to build up some industrial base. Is there any way I can still retain more factories without killing my manpower pool with garrnison?

 

[Jollyholy]

Quick noob question... Does actual units in game, contribute to supression/ resistance reduction at all? or is it only the " hidden " garrison?

 

[Gefallener_Held]

Quick noob question... Does actual units in game, contribute to supression/ resistance reduction at all? or is it only the " hidden " garrison?

I asked this re port garrisons and was told they have no effect on resistance and compliance.

 

[Secret Master]

The only thing that affects suppression is off map garrisons. Units on map have no effect.

 

[Jollyholy]

Thanks alot. I dont have the LR dlc,,, why does the resistance in poland end czech increase, when i got enough garriosn, and local poilce force? will it just go on and on, untill full blown riot and harsh qutas?

 

[Simon_9732495]

Thanks alot. I dont have the LR dlc,,, why does the resistance in poland end czech increase, when i got enough garriosn, and local poilce force? will it just go on and on, untill full blown riot and harsh qutas?

https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Occupation#Resistance_target

If plan sitting on a occupied piece of land for a longer time you can only reduce resistance sustainable by raising compliance. Using harsh laws makes it worse.

 

[Jollyholy]

Thanks Simon!

So another noob question,, as germany on historical , im in phony war before around magniot,no land fights. 12 feb,40) In last 2 months I have lost around 150-200K mp. No units deployed, or new in training, a few new subs and destroyers(2-3 pcs) and constant air war. War tab says ive lost 2,7k troops in casualties to france... garrisson went up from 20k , to 65k.... Garrison losses is 6,6k last 12 mnts.. i might have lost MAX 100 fighters(@20mp ) and maybe 5 subs@200mp
Nothing near explaining the 150-200k MP loss..

So something is wrong, Im leaking MP as crayzy. War tab casualties MUST be wrong, and MP overview is wrong as I got total mp 2,2m mp, army,navy,air,garrison is 1,76m mp, losses 49k, so should have had around 400k fre MP, but only got 180k left.

Also added rumanian puppet division template as garrison, but no change in german garrison number, all garrison still german, even with rumanian template.

Any help on this,? is the MP math broken?

 

[Simon_9732495]

https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Manpower#Total_manpower

This is the sum of the country's off-map free manpower and all controlled states' recruitable population caps, additionally itemized by core and non-core states. It has no practical purpose for the game and importantly is not the sum of any of the other manpower numbers.​

 

[kettyo]

The only thing that affects suppression is off map garrisons. Units on map have no effect.

Is there a possibility to deploy them on the map in case of e.g. invasion for actual fighting?

I guess armored cars could perfectly stop an AI invasion.

 

[Secret Master]

Is there a possibility to deploy them on the map in case of e.g. invasion for actual fighting?

I guess armored cars could perfectly stop an AI invasion.

Nope.

You could, hypothetically, swap to No Garrison policy during an invasion and have the manpower and equipment filter to divisions on map fighting. But that won't be the same as spawning in divisions instantly.

 

[Gefallener_Held]

Thanks Simon!

So another noob question,, as germany on historical , im in phony war before around magniot,no land fights. 12 feb,40) In last 2 months I have lost around 150-200K mp. No units deployed, or new in training, a few new subs and destroyers(2-3 pcs) and constant air war. War tab says ive lost 2,7k troops in casualties to france... garrisson went up from 20k , to 65k.... Garrison losses is 6,6k last 12 mnts.. i might have lost MAX 100 fighters(@20mp ) and maybe 5 subs@200mp
Nothing near explaining the 150-200k MP loss..

So something is wrong, Im leaking MP as crayzy. War tab casualties MUST be wrong, and MP overview is wrong as I got total mp 2,2m mp, army,navy,air,garrison is 1,76m mp, losses 49k, so should have had around 400k fre MP, but only got 180k left.

Also added rumanian puppet division template as garrison, but no change in german garrison number, all garrison still german, even with rumanian template.

Any help on this,? is the MP math broken?

Is the current mechanic that whacked?

 

[arithon]

I'm still struggling to understand how to handle this new system. Even when I have a good template for the garrison, they have manpower, and all their equipment I still seem to be getting a ton of resistance and I'm using the nice guy policies and spys to suppress insurrection. Does it fade over time or just a constant thorn?

 

[jju_57]

I'm still struggling to understand how to handle this new system. Even when I have a good template for the garrison, they have manpower, and all their equipment I still seem to be getting a ton of resistance and I'm using the nice guy policies and spys to suppress insurrection. Does it fade over time or just a constant thorn?

Resistance will ALWAYS be high, especially after a country is defeated. NOTHING you do will actually matter. Resistance grows towards a target and that target is almost always over 25 with many places being 30 to 50. The laws can lower the target level but that means maybe going from 50 down to 30 target. Only compliance can lower it further. But the laws that allow compliance to grow have the lowest amount of reduction.

 

[kettyo]

You could, hypothetically, swap to No Garrison policy during an invasion and have the manpower and equipment filter to divisions on map fighting. But that won't be the same as spawning in divisions instantly.

What a shame. So better handle the suppression and garrison forces as separate things.

 

[Trier]

What have you guys been using?

Also do divisions with higher suppression lower resistance faster?
Also the divisions are not really deployed does a field hospital or do any other support divisions help?

|THE BUILD| What I've been using so far has worked out well for me. Early game, I try to use 10-20 combat width horse divisions. As the game drags on, I increase it to 30, 40, and 50 combat width. I also try to apply a military police as support. Once reaching mid-late game, I tack on about 5-10 light/medium battalions onto it to add hardness.

|THE COST| Horse divisions are relatively cheap and only really require infantry weapons, yet have great suppression statistics. Military police are more of a mid-tier luxury that increase the suppression bonus and chew up resistance. Tanks add armor which makes it more difficult for resistance to break through and damage the garrison. If you do not want to put your surplus tanks into your garrison divisions, then I recommend armored cars. Just be aware that they are not as effective as tanks and aren't amazing for frontline warfare either (unless you max their speed at the expense of armor).

|EFFECTIVENESS| Late game, when you have gobbled up many countries and are in prolonged conflicts with superpowers like Japan, the US, or Germany. This build still works but requires you to also permanently have "resistance suppression" as your focus. Which honestly isn't an issue since you probably are out of focuses anyways. If you need to, you can also apply operatives to resistance hotspots to low resistance. I suggest using "Civilian Oversight" to raise compliance over time. While in the short-term this reduces your factory potential. It gives you permanent factories and manpower in the long-term.

Hope this helped!