Best Characters/Goals to learn the DLC?

[ValMonroe]

Howdy forum folks.

I'm trying to get back into the game after a long lull (and I still can't even unite IRELAND, much less any other fun stuff) but I'm having the hardest time wrapping my brain around all the new stuff that's added with each DLC. Right now I have all the expansions but Horse Lords and Council, but I am at a complete loss on how to do anything but the standard stuff with feudal Christians.

Can anyone suggest some good characters or goals for learning the DLC? Like Ireland is the tutorial for the core mechanics, but what's a good character to play to learn Old Gods or Sword of Islam? Is there a specific ruler that's most useful for learning about Retinues or Republics? Are there some I should disable until I get the hang of others?

Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[shiro the bushi]

1. dont play at the charly or old gods as a fuedal christain start till you have a handle of things
2. for sword of islam any islamic blob states work for patric, abbasids for example. All you really need to know is not to land any relatives and your good
3. when learning pagan mechanics either play as one of the main norse characters at the old gods start (jorvik, halfdann, bjorn etc) or play as one of the sumensko countries. this is for two very different reasons. the norse have the most flavour in old gods and are the most notable (and fun) pagan to play as. Sumensko is the opposite, very little but its bare bone paganism in a fairly peaceful and quiet section of the map.

 

[Bernard95]

Howdy forum folks.

I'm trying to get back into the game after a long lull (and I still can't even unite IRELAND, much less any other fun stuff) but I'm having the hardest time wrapping my brain around all the new stuff that's added with each DLC. Right now I have all the expansions but Horse Lords and Council, but I am at a complete loss on how to do anything but the standard stuff with feudal Christians.

Can anyone suggest some good characters or goals for learning the DLC? Like Ireland is the tutorial for the core mechanics, but what's a good character to play to learn Old Gods or Sword of Islam? Is there a specific ruler that's most useful for learning about Retinues or Republics? Are there some I should disable until I get the hang of others?

Thanks in advance for any help!

1) The Old Gods: Haesteinn Haesteinning of Nantes, 867 / Halfdan "Whiteshirt" Hvitserk of Jorvik, 867
- Haesteinn and Halfdan are two of the few feudal pagans in the entire game. This unto itself makes it that much easier to get used to things like raiding and rapid expansion without having to worry about the additional problems that come from tribalism. I would take Haesteinn over Halfdan though, since you start off with enough prestige to do a prepared invasion out of the starting gate and you won't be at war from Day 1. When you do go out raiding, raid the Mediterranean and bring at least 500 men for optimal looting speed; also look for provinces that have large amounts of unprotected loot or otherwise isolated targets. Use your ill-gotten gains to fund mercenaries or retinues and keep your vassals in line. When you're feeling more confident, try Sigurdr "Ring" af Munso in 769 to get a grasp on Tribalism.

2) The Sword of Islam: Any Larger Vassal Emir Under the Umayyads, 867
-The beauty of Muslims is that they have even more offensive power than a Pagan (as long as you generate piety; get piety through holy wars or the Theology focus) and the second or third most stable succession law in the game. The one downfall is that they have a mechanic called "decadence" (think corruption) that will slowly tick upward as your relatives become decadent. When it hits 100%, it leads to a massive rebellion; higher levels in general also additionally sap your income and troop morale.There are two ways around decadence- either never land any of your relatives and toss them in the dungeon when they refuse to "straighten up their corrupt ways" or you play as a Horde, Tribe, or Republic which does not have decadence. If you want play legitimately, play a vassal under the Umayyads and slowly eat up all of the other vassals via your Conquest CB (I suggest playing under Umayyads only because there's not too many other vassals to contend with, plus the nearby Catholics are a good source of piety) otherwise try something like playing as a Pagan tribal, converting, and then reforming to a Republic.

3) The Republuic: Any Patrician Under Venice, 1066+
-The big caveat with Merchant Republics is that they are only as good as their Trade technology, which at low levels in the earlier starts means you'll only be able to have a few trade posts. Less trade posts = less cash to be had, which also means less cash you could be using to buy an election or upgrade your mansion (cash really does mean everything to a Republic). As far as building trade posts go though which will be your primary source of income by far, hit up the CK2 Wiki. The reason I actually suggest Venice though is simply because you start on an island which will help ensure your long-term future due to the large defensive buff you would receive when enemies attempt marine landings. Venice is also Italian, which means you can put your vast fortune into Italian Pike Retinues (see next section for explanation).

4) Retinues (Legacy of Rome): Any Start with High Potential Income and has a Good Retinue
-The Scottish and Italians undoubtedly have the two best retinues in the game, and you can definitely feel the difference if you send a pure-pike retinue army after your enemies (I kid you not, you can do things like being outnumbered 3:1 attacking into mountains). You do need a serious income though to support large retinue armies of any type, which is probably going mean a lot of blobbing, raiding, or just being a republic. Other than that, the cultures that use heavy infantry retinues such as the Norse, Anglo-Saxon, or Irish are also up there followed by the light cavalry cultures such as Andalusian or Berber. If you're German, Latin-group (minus Italian), Byzantine-group, Altaic-group, or Iranian group do not bother with your cultural retinue (in other words, use generic) since they are very expensive and do not put a lot of damage in. Check the Wiki or Reddit for ideal combinations / top retinues, though bear in mind the Wiki is slightly out of date.

Bonus) The Base Game: Matilda of Tuscany / Vratislav of Bohemia, 1066
To make a long story short, the HRE is like a really big Ireland. It's isolated because of the sheer size of the Empire and you will never have to worry about external threats for the same reason. Unlike Ireland though, starting off as Duke actually means you have some money and troops to work with, plus you can also play around with the marriage game more easily. As Matilda and her heirs especially, it should be fairly easy to establish a strong kingdom that can go onto to either rule the HRE with an iron fist after changing the succession law or form a new empire.

Side note: Putting all of this together, literally one of the most OP combinations out there is a Norse Islamic Merchant Republic. Good retinue, excellent CBs, and an excellent income (which you can supplement even further with raiding), plus a stable succession law to boot.

 

[ValMonroe]

Wow! Thanks for that, Bernard! I certainly have my list for my next few games. Perhaps I'll even Ironman them and try to jump into the AAR game! Then again, that might be a bit too ambitious for someone who can't even keep a blog.

Those are all great suggestions, and I presume from those playthroughs I'll be better equipped for things like Sunset Invasion and Charlemagne. But what about Sons of Abraham? Does that one provide any major mechanical difference apart from peppering the map with Jewish courtiers and giving a few more options for Christians? Nothing along the lines of SoI I presume?

 

[Bernard95]

Wow! Thanks for that, Bernard! I certainly have my list for my next few games. Perhaps I'll even Ironman them and try to jump into the AAR game! Then again, that might be a bit too ambitious for someone who can't even keep a blog.

Those are all great suggestions, and I presume from those playthroughs I'll be better equipped for things like Sunset Invasion and Charlemagne. But what about Sons of Abraham? Does that one provide any major mechanical difference apart from peppering the map with Jewish courtiers and giving a few more options for Christians? Nothing along the lines of SoI I presume?

Happy to help you out. I've played CK2 well over a 1000hrs and when you start getting past 500-750hrs you end up becoming an encyclopedia about most of the game's mechanics, starts, strategies, and other useful tidbits. Back when I first started playing around the time of Sons of Abraham, we at least had Youtubers like Arumba who played the game and played it well in addition to these forums and a Wiki that had a wealth of information and guides. These days though, if you're a newer player or if you've been gone for a year or so your only real resource are these forums (the number one resource for sure then and now) and the Wiki when its up-to-date, so I try to help people out when I can. There are still Youtubers who play the game of course, but a lot of the more famous people like Arumba, Shen, and Quill have all moved on to EU4.

Anyhow, for the sake of Sons of Abraham that DLC was mostly a Christian flavor pack with the addition of Jews being a playable religion. Pretty much the only Jews in the game are Khazars and then the Duke of Semien. Without Horse Lords the first is somewhat difficult since you're a religion that everyone has a cb on, but the second is the kind of start you only take if you're looking for a serious, masochistic challenge simply because you're surrounded by both hostile Christians and Muslims plus you have nothing in the way of income or allies. Basically the best comparison is a Catholic heresy- the world is out to get you and you don't get much in the way of flavor but at least you can form Israel and create a religious head if you can hold off Crusades and Jihads for Jerusalem/Israel. If you do however want to try and form Israel, either do it as a horde or the sort of gamey approach and take good ol' Haesteinn of Nantes (or your favorite Viking) then take the islands of Sardinia and Crete so you're in diplomatic range of Africa. Prepare invade Abyssinia and convert to Judaism. Using your inherent ability to raid just from being Norse culture, you now stand a chance against all of your enemies.

Charlemagne on the other hand really just adds viceroys for the Byzantines, which isn't much different from playing a regular feudal character other than your title goes back to the Emperor upon death and he can grant it to anyone he sees fit. As you might imagine though, this can become problemaitc when de jure boundaries get completely ignored by the AI or the Emperor decides to randomly give your vassal a title. There's also Charlemagne's story events, but those aren't much of a big deal either. It additionally adds custom kingdoms and empires, which is sort of nice but not something you typically use unless you have a specific reason or just think it's cool to create a Kingdom and then Empire of Mann or something.

Sunset Invasion was basically born out of the idea giving nations in Western Europe the equivalent of the Mongols to fear late game, though I swear in more recent patches what usually happens is that Aztecs knock out two kingdoms worth of land then they'll end up Christianized with a lot of their event spawn troops wasted. Pretty much a paper tiger in my opinion, unless you're on the receiving end of their initial invasion or two (which will target two random nations on the Western coast of Europe).