Best build for reformed horde

[Satyratron]

I'm wondering how to build an effective military with a Muslim reformed horde in multiplayer. focusing on cav seems like the obvious thing to do, but that gets weaker as the game progresses and my nomad tech group will already give me really bad units so I need an edge mid to late game.

I took defensive already so need to fill out the rest of my build from there. I could try to stack unit combat bonus modifiers and discipline (offensive, aristo, quality, econ, innovative) or aim for max morale from ideas and policies. I don't get national idea bonuses for morale or disciplined so I won't really be competitive in either. Not sure how to do this. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[sigeena]

Stack Cav CA via Aristo+Espionage. Which horde are you using?

The new Tribal Federation with AQ and QQ are also quite cool. You get extra cav ratio and your NIs are usually favouring Cav CA as well as Leader shock. You'll wont get the extra shock damage in flatlands but you'll also not suffer less shock damage in non flat lands as well.

 

[Satyratron]

Mongolia

 

[sigeena]

Mongolia is muslim? Isn't Tengri better for cav overall?

How about trying to form Yuan? You'll get extra morale as Yuan

 

[Dutch Patriot]

Mongolia

Don't pick a syncretic faith, stack cav combat ability and have 100% cav armies.

 

[TenshiN]

Pick Quality, Aristocratic, Espionage, Aristo+Espionage policy. Since cav is expensive, anything that reduces unit upkeep is good. Therefore, you might also consider Economic for your paper mana group of choice. Also what Dutch Patriot said. No syncretic Tengri is awesome since it also gives that hefty discount to unit costs.

 

[Satyratron]

I stuck with pure tengri for most of the game but religious unity and income loss caused me to convert to islam. if their land was easier to convert or if syncretic sunni gave decent bonuses, i would have stayed tengri. I thought about taking religious to facilitate this but thought it unwise since religious doesn't synergize with the combat ability build im going for.

 

[Satyratron]

Qing is in the game and took some of mongolia in the first war so i didt have many tengri provinces to begin with. again, this is in MP.

 

[sigeena]

if Qing is another human player, you're going to have a hard time. They practically don't use manpower in their wars, with their banner system. Which means its very hard to cripple them economically, via loans-mercenaries.

 

[Satyratron]

Qing is my friend now so thats not a problem. for now...

 

[TenshiN]

I stuck with pure tengri for most of the game but religious unity and income loss caused me to convert to islam. if their land was easier to convert or if syncretic sunni gave decent bonuses, i would have stayed tengri. I thought about taking religious to facilitate this but thought it unwise since religious doesn't synergize with the combat ability build im going for.

Pick humanist and tengri decision giving +2 tolerance of heathens and don't ever worry about religious unity again! Tengri is one of the better religions for humanist, as it is pretty bad at converting in general, but its unique tolerance decision in addition to pure tengri bonuses is just too awesome to pass up

 

[Satyratron]

Great points but feel hesitant to pick humanist in a MP game given the importance of stacking good policies. Will take that into consideration for next time though, I really miss my pure tengri bonuses.

 

[makaramus]

may I suggest you to converting to orthodox? by this your tech group becomes eastern wich allows to cossacks
also orthodox religion is one of best religions in game

if you go orthodox reform yourself and go for religius soon as you can

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I stuck with pure tengri for most of the game but religious unity and income loss caused me to convert to islam. if their land was easier to convert or if syncretic sunni gave decent bonuses, i would have stayed tengri. I thought about taking religious to facilitate this but thought it unwise since religious doesn't synergize with the combat ability build im going for.

If you're not expanding that fast, something like base Tengri or Shinto sync if you manage to reach it (5% discipline) + religious for morale policies could be useful. In WC runs you can't keep up with expansion pace that way at all, but that doesn't seem to be your main issue/concern here.

Legalism Islam does not offer much in the way of military bonuses unless you take defender of the faith, and that's a bad idea in Asia typically. Even with DotF, it's not exactly a big boost. For military quality even Vajrayana + religious should beat out Islam, and yes it feels weird to say that .

 

[Satyratron]

Mmm. Does converting to Orthodox really change the tech of your units? If so that would definitely be worth it.

 

[Zohtun]

Mmm. Does converting to Orthodox really change the tech of your units? If so that would definitely be worth it.

When Horde reforms it does change units based on your religion yes. If you're Christian you become Eastern. If you're Muslim you become...well Muslim. For everything else, you go Chinese.

 

[Gnostek]

When Horde reforms it does change units based on your religion yes. If you're Christian you become Eastern. If you're Muslim you become...well Muslim. For everything else, there is mastercard.

ftfy

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Unit type barely matters after early game, I would not base decisions on that. A 1 pip advantage is 1/2 of a dice roll point, and only for the phase where that 1 pip applies, all while everyone has the same cannons.

Extra shock pips early on matter significantly since fire doesn't do much damage yet. By the time you're realistically reforming, having eastern tech units vs Muslim/Chinese is not giving you much.

Even at tech 23, winged hussars get 1 more shock pip than if you went Muslim tech, and the same number of pips overall. They will perform almost identically. Pick religion based on the merits of the religion itself IMO.

 

[makaramus]

Unit type barely matters after early game, I would not base decisions on that. A 1 pip advantage is 1/2 of a dice roll point, and only for the phase where that 1 pip applies, all while everyone has the same cannons.

Extra shock pips early on matter significantly since fire doesn't do much damage yet. By the time you're realistically reforming, having eastern tech units vs Muslim/Chinese is not giving you much.

Even at tech 23, winged hussars get 1 more shock pip than if you went Muslim tech, and the same number of pips overall. They will perform almost identically. Pick religion based on the merits of the religion itself IMO.

eastern tech group is amazing if you are playing based on cav (wich you are since you were horde and got many ideas for them)
I mean horde ideas are not on commonwealth level for cav but orthodox is simply one of best religions in game so even if its not worth for cossacks its worth for religion
its difficult to convert from orthodox (not much as muslim but smiler) too so you will also have easier time to convert

 

[TheMeInTeam]

eastern tech group is amazing if you are playing based on cav (wich you are since you were horde and got many ideas for them)
I mean horde ideas are not on commonwealth level for cav but orthodox is simply one of best religions in game so even if its not worth for cossacks its worth for religion
its difficult to convert from orthodox (not much as muslim but smiler) too so you will also have easier time to convert

You're talking about a one pip advantage, and only sometimes. Often none.

This will not meaningfully impact the outcome of wars for nearly the entire game. It's no reason to go out of your way to switch religions. If you're going to switch to Orthodox, the reason should be something like HRE or you think Orthodox is stronger by enough to merit the switching cost.