Depending on how one goes about defining the term Saint, but I'm going to go with a big N-O. We do not have a Muslim equivalent to the Christian idea of Saints or Sainthood.
Being sainted
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Depending on how one goes about defining the term Saint, but I'm going to go with a big N-O. We do not have a Muslim equivalent to the Christian idea of Saints or Sainthood.
I think Old Gods could use introducing sainthood, especially martyrdom. Your chaplain, sent to pagan lands, died at the hands of the heathens? Beatification (or maybe even canonization) coming right up, vide Adalbert (Wojciech) of Prague, Brunon of Querfurt, and so on, and so forth. Also: Pagan princes/chiefs/jarls/whatnot deciding to side with Christianity, only to be killed by their people, wishing to retain status quo (good king Venceslaus, for example).
Those men were made saints not too long after their deaths but they were dead. Ladislaus I of Hungary is worth mention as well since he essentially did Stephen's job all over again.
What if there was something that it checked when your character died, based on... Oh, piety, or traits, or something, and then set the message and effects on a delay. So, when the guy dies with sufficient stuff, the game will be like "Oh, he died remarkable enough to be a saint. Yes, he's a saint." But then doesn't actually tell you and give you effects until later.
Ok, so Muslims 'saints'/imam are currently only represented with Knowledge and Piety only, I think.
Let's imagine one day sanctity is implemented in the game for Christians dynasties. Roughly speaking, these effects would be:
- Prestige gain for the dynasty;
- Maybe a better relation with Church and bishops;
- Maybe also, as I suggested above, additionnal revenues in a way or another (as a basis: maybe possibility to build a convent in your capital, permiting extra Prestige and incomes there).
Then I believe it would be a good idea to have an equivalent for the Muslim world. Maybe in the same way, to represent such things as Mehmet II's tomb in Istanbul, shiit 'saints' tomb in ar-Raqqa and such things?
Could be fun to fight for defending such income, if for example another ruler want to conquer your Capital! And the more you had 'saints', the more you'll need to defend Baghdad, Damas or Kairouan.
Muslims in game do not have an independent church; holders of temple holdings are still feudal vassals, so the second point is moot. The first and third could both be covered by an event granting free temple holdings to dynasty members of exceptionally pious characters, perhaps posthumously. It could be made in the style of the event giving castles to the Knights Templar in Jerusalem, and has an added bonus of being justifiable in terms of flavor: The temple could represent a tomb of a notable character, and could potentially need to be defended.
I think that would still be to common. Also it sounds as if saints are real, by witch i mean not just made up by the church. The fact that a person decides if somebody is blessed or saint is important here. How about a character getting the status blessed if he/she dies/lives under the right circumstances (martyr, piety score) and the current pope liked him/her. Than centuries later a member of the same dynasty can start a plot to make a blessed ancestor/dynasty member holy. You gather support from bishops maybe emperors or rulers with high piety and than propose the idea to the current pope.
Yeah, didn't think about that. But you can hold a mosque by yourself to gain piety. Why not have a reduction of decadence linked to the number of 'saints' in your dynasty?
For the first point that seems evident: when your receive the event saying one of your ancestors is a saint, this adds prestige and piety--so score--to your dynasty.
For the third point, I don't believe this would be a real good idea. What if there is no more free slot in your capital, or if you would have prefered to build a palace or a city? Upgrading for a mosque or for your palace seems a lot better, in my opinion.
Moreover, upgrading wouldn't affect the domesne penalty, so really permitting a reward (with prestige/piety/income) for you dead 'saint' character buried in your capital.
A new mosquee would hardly benefit to you but rather to a vassal if you have reached the domesne penalty, so this would be something like a hidden sanction for your 'saint'.
The only way I can see this having any sort of effect on gameplay, is if it becomes gamey, and they start naming everyone a "Patron Saint", and that section given some sort of bonus. I can think of a few off the top of my head, that are actually believable (or at least, as believable as for example, the Pope's plan for naming a patron saint of Internet users and computer programmers.) Some of them may include patron saints of merchants (covering republics, and maybe even mayors), patron saints by culture. Otherwise it's just a bit of piety and or prestige
Just to clarify about the term 'living saint'; it is used, but it's not the same as a proper Saint. 'Living saint' is simply an emphatic way of saying 'holy person', whereas a Saint proper has been declared by the Church to be in heaven, and typically will have hymns, a feast day, icons, etc.
Yeah, no. The whole 'Saint' thing doesn't fit in with Islamic traditions unless one uses the Sufis as the base which would be weird. The whole 'Saint' thing seems to be present in non-Arab Muslim communities that have blended their indigenous faith with Islam. The idea just doesn't fit. The Turks and Iranians can do it, but I find it hard to believe that Gulf Arabs, Egyptians or North African Arabs would.
I may be wrong, but I don't think I ever saw one of these nicknames in the game--but the Franch translation and my memory may fool me:
nick_the_lawgiver = {}
nick_the_usurper = {}
nick_the_hammer = {}
nick_the_conqueror = {}
nick_the_victorious = {}
nick_the_crusader = {}
nick_the_holy = {}
nick_the_avenger = {}
nick_the_brave = {}
nick_the_fearless = {}
nick_the_martyr = {}
nick_the_unlucky = {}
nick_the_lucky = {}
nick_the_restorer = {}
nick_the_effeminate = {}
nick_the_clueless = {}
nick_the_ill_tempered = {}
nick_the_affable = {}
nick_the_heathen = {}
nick_the_liberator = {}
nick_haardraade = {}
nick_the_jackal = {}
nick_the_glorious = {}
nick_the_saint = {}
But if these really appear in the game, this is clearly not enough for having the feeling of a great variety beside 'The Great'.
Whatever, this topic turned very very interesting: what would you presonnaly think of something more fleshed out around sanctity? Did you ever win something from your sanctity?
nick_the_lawgiver = {}
nick_the_usurper = {}
nick_the_hammer = {}
nick_the_conqueror = {}
nick_the_victorious = {}
nick_the_crusader = {}
nick_the_holy = {}
nick_the_avenger = {}
nick_the_brave = {}
nick_the_fearless = {}
nick_the_martyr = {}
nick_the_unlucky = {}
nick_the_lucky = {}
nick_the_restorer = {}
nick_the_effeminate = {}
nick_the_clueless = {}
nick_the_ill_tempered = {}
nick_the_affable = {}
nick_the_heathen = {}
nick_the_liberator = {}
nick_haardraade = {}
nick_the_jackal = {}
nick_the_glorious = {}
nick_the_saint = {}
But if these really appear in the game, this is clearly not enough for having the feeling of a great variety beside 'The Great'.
Whatever, this topic turned very very interesting: what would you presonnaly think of something more fleshed out around sanctity? Did you ever win something from your sanctity?
Elfryc, not all of them are used, but at least conqueror, holy, effeminate and saint are. I think glorious as well (when restoring Rome?).
I've seen "the Heathen", but only on a starting character - I think it's the major Swedish Duke.
I think "the Restorer" has possible ways to get it - recovering a kingdom that was lost perhaps?
I think "the Restorer" has possible ways to get it - recovering a kingdom that was lost perhaps?
For 'the Heathen' I think that's Erik in 1066, but I thought that was only for him in the characters files.
As for me, I don't really like having 15 kings as vassals, and it's not uncommon I have 4 bastards. This could explain that...
And, rather strangely, I seeked an information about 'born in the Purple' for another thread and found this first picture here...
Sorry for the big bump.
You cannot be sainted in CK2. You can gain the nickname "The Saint", but you have to be Orthodox. I think the method of gaining the nickname was mentioned on the first page of the topic.
Also, did the latest DLC actually add some form of sainting and beatification into the game at all, or did it just add Papal Electors for the next Pope into the Catholic religion?
I think achieving sainthood would be a great set of events, but it should be something you have to campaign for, not something you should get for free. It should be possible to lobby the Pope for getting one of your ancestors sainted or beatified if they had enough piety and good traits and you currently have enough piety and are in good standing with the Church. There was a pretty big campaign to get Edward the Confessor sainted, and it only happened a century or so after his death.
You get nicknamed "the saint" if you mend the schism as an Orthodox, while alive I might add. I don't think it happens otherwise.