Being good in trade

[elglanto]

Hi,

I see lots of people saying that trade brings lot of money but I guess I am lacking some understanding there since I can't achieve that. Thus, I wanted to look at some let's play or read some tutorials but I couldn't find an up to date one.

So, from what I understand, you want to steer trade toward your home node with merchants. In my current game, being Byzantium, I steer from Aleppo and Alexandria toward Constantinople since it is just the beginning of the game. I don’t have a merchant in Constantinople node to collect since, as far as I understood, if I have a merchant collecting in my home node, I would lose trade power in the nodes I steer from (I am pretty sure I read something around those lines but can’t find the correct answer to be completely positive).
1) Merchants should only steer toward home node and never collect, even in the main node. Is that correct?

For the trade value, as far as I understand, the only way to actively increase it is to build buildings that increase the goods production such as the workshop and the stock exchange. However, in the wiki, it is written that the Advisor giving production efficiency +10% increases the good produced but they don’t mention the constable building which has the same bonus (+20% however). Thus, something is wrong there but which part?
2) Does the production efficiency increase the good produced and thus, the trade value?

From what I understand, there are two ways to increase the income from trade. Increasing the trade power of increasing the trade value by increasing the goods produced.
3) Is it usually better to build the Mint+Stock Exchange or the Post Office+ Customs House?

Thanks for your help.

 

[dstarsboy]

The only one I can answer is #1 and you're correct. However, I believe a merchant is worthless unless you already have some presence in the trade node. For example, just sending a Merchant to steer from a crazy rich node like Seville where you currently have 0 trade power will do nothing. In my experience, merchants are very much like trade ships, and should be sent to a node upstream where you have an existing trade power presence but you are currently not the top trade power there... your objective is essentially to use light ships and merchants to boost you to the top spot. If you are already the top spot without the need for ships or merchants, then send them elsewhere.

I have found that, as a trade empire such a England, trade ships are RIDICULOUSLY important. My income goes from +80 per month to -16 per month if my 70 trade ships circling the English channel ever decide to take a short break in the harbor. It's devastating if your ships dock for repairs after a battle or something.

With the trade fleets up and running, it allows you the ability to build more trade fleets for other nodes, but these can't ever stop being active for a long periods or everything will come crashing down.

 

[finkellll]

1) depends on your starting country. I found in my Russia game that expansion westward is slowed by Terra Incognita, so I can't see any of the trade nodes. Since I took trade ideas, I had more merchants than meaningful places transfer from, so I started collecting where I could (persia, constantinople).

2) not sure, someone else will have to answer.

3) If you are going for trade, build the post office.

I watched Arumba's Najd Jihad reboot campaign, and he spends time at the beginning setting up trade. Its in 1.7 but I would imagine the high level concepts are still relavent.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLH-huzMEgGWDwBGqJRgRb08T3Mn5OpF_5

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLH-huzMEgGWD3w_T2N8h0ubRR7ubC3T7f

 

[Gaamel]

Hi,

I see lots of people saying that trade brings lot of money but I guess I am lacking some understanding there since I can't achieve that. Thus, I wanted to look at some let's play or read some tutorials but I couldn't find an up to date one.

So, from what I understand, you want to steer trade toward your home node with merchants. In my current game, being Byzantium, I steer from Aleppo and Alexandria toward Constantinople since it is just the beginning of the game. I don’t have a merchant in Constantinople node to collect since, as far as I understood, if I have a merchant collecting in my home node, I would lose trade power in the nodes I steer from (I am pretty sure I read something around those lines but can’t find the correct answer to be completely positive).

The big money comes from collecting in end nodes : Sevilla, Bordeaux and the Channel. Constantinople is a good node to control but the trade value gets sucked by downstream nations, Venice for instance. If you expect to make a lot of trade money, begin by seizing the provinces with TP bonus and build trade buildings on them. When you feel confident, build a big fleet of galleas and crush Venice's light ships.

I don't believe you lose TP by collecting with a merchant in your capital. If I'm not mistaken the malus only applies if you collect in another node.

1) Merchants should only steer toward home node and never collect, even in the main node. Is that correct?

For the trade value, as far as I understand, the only way to actively increase it is to build buildings that increase the goods production such as the workshop and the stock exchange. However, in the wiki, it is written that the Advisor giving production efficiency +10% increases the good produced but they don’t mention the constable building which has the same bonus (+20% however). Thus, something is wrong there but which part?

Ideally you want to steer everything to your main trading port and collect there, because when several nations steer trade every one of them add a % to the forwarded value. Unfortunately it's not always possible, for instance, if you control nodes in Asia like Moluccas/Malacca/etc and don't control the way back to Istanbul, it can be more profitable to collect abroad and sit on the TP bonus.

2) Does the production efficiency increase the good produced and thus, the trade value?

No. The production value is proportional to the trade value, so if you increase the trade value you earn more in prod but it doesn't work the other way around.

From what I understand, there are two ways to increase the income from trade. Increasing the trade power of increasing the trade value by increasing the goods produced.

TP gives you a bigger share of the trade value in the node. It's very profitable to increase your TP when your share is low, but when you sit at 70-80% and want to reach 90%, you'd rather destroy the light ship fleets in your collecting node AND downstream.

Trade value comes from the base price (which you cannot control), the base tax of the province (idem) and from goods produced (workshops and manufactures increase it by 20% and 100% respectively). Trade depot and canal also boost the trade value.

3) Is it usually better to build the Mint+Stock Exchange or the Post Office+ Customs House?

Thanks for your help.

Post office + Customs in provinces with TP bonus (trade centers, estuaries, etc). Don't bother building advanced buildings in the other provinces, most of the time money becomes a non-issue as soon as you unlock them. From what I calculated in 1.7, college/cathedral was worth it in provinces with worthless goods (fish...), mint/stock exchange was better 90% of the time. (Unless you need the cathedral to convert some reluctant religion center). With the 1.8 increase to trade goods, trade are prod income is much more important than ever.

 

[elglanto]

The big money comes from collecting in end nodes : Sevilla, Bordeaux and the Channel. Constantinople is a good node to control but the trade value gets sucked by downstream nations, Venice for instance. If you expect to make a lot of trade money, begin by seizing the provinces with TP bonus and build trade buildings on them. When you feel confident, build a big fleet of galleas and crush Venice's light ships.

I don't believe you lose TP by collecting with a merchant in your capital. If I'm not mistaken the malus only applies if you collect in another node.

Thanks. Thus, my two fastest options are too crush Venice's light ship (which I am doing since I am at war with them) or to vassalize them at the end of the war (not sure if possible due to the cost) and then, diplo annex to have the complete control over the end node. With the second option, I would make Venice my main port while keeping my capital in Constantinople.

No. The production value is proportional to the trade value, so if you increase the trade value you earn more in prod but it doesn't work the other way around.

Thanks, then the wiki is wrong there.

TP gives you a bigger share of the trade value in the node. It's very profitable to increase your TP when your share is low, but when you sit at 70-80% and want to reach 90%, you'd rather destroy the light ship fleets in your collecting node AND downstream.

Trade value comes from the base price (which you cannot control), the base tax of the province (idem) and from goods produced (workshops and manufactures increase it by 20% and 100% respectively). Trade depot and canal also boost the trade value.


Post office + Customs in provinces with TP bonus (trade centers, estuaries, etc). Don't bother building advanced buildings in the other provinces, most of the time money becomes a non-issue as soon as you unlock them. From what I calculated in 1.7, college/cathedral was worth it in provinces with worthless goods (fish...), mint/stock exchange was better 90% of the time. (Unless you need the cathedral to convert some reluctant religion center). With the 1.8 increase to trade goods, trade are prod income is much more important than ever.

Thanks a lot for your answer. Also, beside trade centers and estuaries, what are the others Trade Power bonuses that are liked to a province?

 

[A Swell Guy]

1) Merchants should only steer toward home node and never collect, even in the main node. Is that correct?

Depends on how good your home node is. If you have a good, competitive home node, then yes, since you now get bonus trade modifiers to your home node when none of your merchants collect.

2) Does the production efficiency increase the good produced and thus, the trade value?

No, but the goods produced nationally does also increase trade value.

3) Is it usually better to build the Mint+Stock Exchange or the Post Office+ Customs House?

Depends on the goods being produced, and whether you have important centers of trade or estuaries. For gold provinces, the mint and stock exchange are always better. For important centers of trade, estuaries, or to just maintain trade company bonuses, the post office and custom house are pretty good.