Being a superduke in the HRE...

[CurtisManning]

I started this new game being Heinrich the Lion (because I loved the character in the Age of Empires II Barbarossa's campaign for those who remember). I started in 1156 so I was duke of Saxony and Bavaria at the same time. My uncle was duke of Tuscany and Spoleto, I had a claim on it from the beginning, I attacked and took back the Matilda's lands.

Then I was no doubt the most powerful duke in the empire. I pressed claims over some other duchies and counties, like Tyrol, Austria and Carinthia. I have many many duchies. People are starting to vote for me for the HRE throne. I don't want it. Not yet when it's autonomous vassals and when I'm growing stronger and stronger. I don't want to give away my beloved duchies. I declared war on one of my backers and I lost the election.

Now I'm about 1180, Heinrich is dead but my son Reinhard (genius) took over. He married the countess of Nurnberg a genius woman too. (Best couple ever, 19 + 27 diplomacy is huge). The HRE won a crusade in Andalucia, grabbed Poland and some italian lands. The emperor is expanding quickly, Medium CA for now. I'm still in the favorites to succeed him.

I don't know what to do. Should I stay a superduke or become the emperor ? Giving away all my duchies will be painful, but at least I will control everything.

To get an idea of my strength, I have on my own 100 of realm size (7th largest kingdom in the world) and about 30k men (10th army in the world)

The german culture is great for retinue, the Skirmish unit gives 300 heavy cavalry and 200 light cavalry. Much better than the Caballero I had in my Hispania game.

Any thoughts on what should I do ?

 

[Darkgamma]

Go for independence, become king of Germany, have lots of fun.
That would be one suggestion

 

[CurtisManning]

I'm not sure independence is great. I don't like giving free strong claims to all my holdings to some guy who appears to be one of the most poweful men in the world.

I'm thinking about taking the Empire, and then destroy the title. Could be fun.

 

[Darkgamma]

You can't destroy the empire unless you have other empires.
He won't be one of the most powerful men in the world when he loses you as his vassal, as you've probably got more troops than he.

 

[CurtisManning]

Oh well. I'm gonna stay duke for a while. Duke is better than King IMHO.

 

[Djieh]

Go for independence, become king of Germany, have lots of fun.
That would be one suggestion

I second that motion.

I like to try and break up the "traditional" CKII superpowers like France and the HRE in some of my games, even if just to find out what happens with new power structures. In my current game I founded the Kingdom of Aquitaine and started acting as the "Christian Rescue Force" to the Hispanic kings.

You might need to restrain yourself concerning expansion, though. If you break up the HRE and replace it by your own super-kingdom, not much has changed ...

 

[Darkgamma]

As king, when elected, you won't lose any titles after death except the imperial one.

 

[Sian]

get a kingdom and give out your duchies to trusted vassals ... and in your mind, call your kingdom a grand principality or something like that with smaller dukes under him

 

[unmerged(26764)]

You can't destroy the empire unless you have other empires.
He won't be one of the most powerful men in the world when he loses you as his vassal, as you've probably got more troops than he.

One solution to this is to destroy the HRE title in the save game file to return to your status as king. I've done this when I wanted to stay the King of X instead of the HRE. I wish you could do this normally. For example, when I was the King of Brittany I really didn't want to become a quasi-German -- I was Breton and wanted to stay that way.

Just delete your character ID from the HRE title in the save game. Then find and replace "liege=e_HRE" with "liege=k_whatever" and you're good to go.

 

[N Katsyev]

You can't destroy the empire unless you have other empires.
He won't be one of the most powerful men in the world when he loses you as his vassal, as you've probably got more troops than he.

Nonsense, the HRE always has magic numbers of troops. They just keep coming like locusts.

I also find it horribly sad that we can't destroy it without other emperor titles. The HRE must be destroyed!

 

[Beagá]

Being emperor of the HRE is still a higher title than being king of only Germany (in case all you want to do is become independant).

Also the goal of the game is, ultimatedly, having a big score. It´s pretty obvious that said score is easier to get as emperor than superduke. Unless you think emperor of the HRE is an ugly sounding title and you don´t like grey

 

[yezhanquan]

Get an Emperor title quickly, then create king-vassals to handle other dukes like you who may not like their liege so much...

 

[Ithvan]

Become emperor, create a king title (make sure it's gavelkind or primogeniture) and make sure your heir isn't elected as Kaiser. THEN strike out on your own.

 

[Darkgamma]

Kingdom of Bavaria is a good choice.

 

[Sian]

IMO the best kingdom in HRE is probably Bohemia ... its only 2 duchies big so you can keep both duchies with no whining from your vassals, and have elective without any other voters than yourself

 

[markmid]

I use a mod which lets me create an empire title if I hold 4 kingdoms, so my usual route is to take the kingdoms inside the HRE and then build my own empire. Empires are vastly overpowered so I suggest you go that route myself, only unmodded you'll need to pick one of the existing or createable ones to take over. Unless of course you want a more challenging game then stick with collecting king titles , see how many you can get by the end?

 

[Ruwaard]

I'd say become Holy Roman Empire and try to establish your dynasty as the de facto hereditary dynasty of the HRE; however try to gain a Royal crown, for instance Bohemia, too.

Then establish the HRE as the only Christian Empire and true Roman Empire.