Beginner's Guide to Unit Types & Division Design
- Thread starter GAGA Extrem
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Heres a question for min-maxers. In Superior firepower doctrine, the first branching option either give you Org recovery and + Soft attack for line artillery Or +10 org to all support companies and +soft attack for support arty.
So, if I run say a 6 inf batt + 3 line arty + 5 support (say hospital, logistics, recon, signal and engineers). Would it better to get the first option or the second option? I've always went for the first option for overall firepower increase since I don't use support arty but seeing that support companies cause an org loss, would a +10 actually increase the average division org to a noticeable degree? Thanks
So, if I run say a 6 inf batt + 3 line arty + 5 support (say hospital, logistics, recon, signal and engineers). Would it better to get the first option or the second option? I've always went for the first option for overall firepower increase since I don't use support arty but seeing that support companies cause an org loss, would a +10 actually increase the average division org to a noticeable degree? Thanks
I had to rely on them and mountaineers as infantry for a while as Italy after I accidentally converted all my infantry divisions into light armoured divisions.
Anyone got any suggestions for MTN troops?
Also, what about coastal defence troops (West wall)?
Also, what about coastal defence troops (West wall)?
I have a problem understanding a division template. My template says that I will have a base speed of 6.6km/h.
Base speed in division designer.
Base speed after the unit is deployed. The slowest unit has a base speed of 6.3km, still the hole division has a base speed of 4km/h
Can someone tell my what lowers my base speed to 4km/h?
Base speed in division designer.
Base speed after the unit is deployed. The slowest unit has a base speed of 6.3km, still the hole division has a base speed of 4km/h
Can someone tell my what lowers my base speed to 4km/h?
I typically do 5 mt, 2 spa, and 2 mech - Does this have enough org? (What is a general baseline number and why that number?)
Is it becuase you have outdated slower tanks in your division?
The division in the designer is if all tanks were up to date. In reality your divisions may still have slow old tanks that need updating / replacing.
Those T35s may be the problem in the screenshot.
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You have 5 T-35 tanks still in that unit. I think their speed is 4 km/hr.
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Possible question in the vein of coastal defense- how well does the strategy of defensive depth work so far in 4? Is it worth having a bunch of less powerful units that can swarm and keep an enemy from breaking out/through?
The old HARM and the fact that you don't have all your equipment. Seems that the speed depend directly of the % of mobile equipment in the division (there is a post, somewhere, that show that)
Would you consider adding the pros/cons of the different doctrine trees, and when one is more favorable than the other?
Already done, but that thread apparently got buried somewhere here.
It's called "Beginner's Guide to Doctrines".
It's called "Beginner's Guide to Doctrines".
I don't have the text saved, sorry.
But in short: Minors should go for Mass Assault (right branch), because it offers a ton of great benefits (including +5% MP, which is usually the biggest problem of a small nation).
edit: Google helps: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/beginners-guide-to-doctrines.942522/
But in short: Minors should go for Mass Assault (right branch), because it offers a ton of great benefits (including +5% MP, which is usually the biggest problem of a small nation).
edit: Google helps: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/beginners-guide-to-doctrines.942522/
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The advantage of the base tank model is the Breaktrought.
Breaktrought is the hardest start to get and only tanks have plenty of that stat.
Hint: Place your guide on your signature just like i did with mine air combat guide that is also in the graveyard even if i just did that guide yesteday. The forum have too many topics right now.
Its the only way we have right now to save guides that can´t fit into a wiki.
I wiil link your guide on my signature so people can see your guides and help to place all guides into only 1 place (if you have more guides just let me know
).If someone know a good naval guide also let me know. Want to place in my signature XD.
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Well Tank Destroyers are defensive weapons, so it's handy. Heavy TD's would be an idea, and give some stopping power vs AI Tanks I suppose.
I dabbled with the idea of Heavy SP Art because it gives almost double the SA and is a few hard unit.
Really, what it'll come down to is your supply situation, both use fuel, where leg ART/AT doesn't, and you might want to save the fuel for the planes and tanks instead.
Interesting doctrine analysis.
I've been thinking on beginner/minor advice. I think one of the ways 4 is more complicated than 2 is how rather than just building 5*3 '41 infantry divisions you have to choose the parts, then build them, then train the men. It can then be hard to spot where the bottle necks are, or if you are overproducing small arms. I think a useful solution for beginners and a necessary one for minors is to streamline. In essence I have been trying to recreate the infantry spam min/maxing of 2.
I think this means the best division template is 7 inf 2 art support art. Only. This only requires small arms and art to build so is relatively cheap to build. You don't need to worry about messing around with at and aa, mot, mech, tanks etc. So it allows you to focus your production. Eventually you will need mp brigades for your cav partisan divisions so you can start adding in eng/recon/logistics companies to give your inf a bit of mobility. It also means you don't have to research a lot of tech which means you can keep your industrial tech up to scratch, your inf tech practically ahead of time and have one team dedicated to land doctrine permanently. You can then work on getting air or navy a bit better when you are on top of core techs.
In single player you barely ever come up against tanks, so I think focusing on soft attack is a good idea. For doctrine I would take superior firepower with dispersed attack and then the right second branch as this maxes your inf and art effectiveness. As a minor you get a great fascists national focus that gives you 5% manpower which means extensive conscription and war economy puts you in a pretty good place.
When it comes to building divisions out of your stock pile train as many as you can at once. There is no point building serials of 10*5 build 50 at once. Delete the spare serials that do not automatically fill. Then set up a second small serial of a few divisions to use your future production. This also helps you see what you have been over producing (ie as you blow your stockpile you see that you still need more art, so increase production of that.)
Another gamey trick is to add new production as a new serial. This means you don't waste your old gearing bonus.
I've been thinking on beginner/minor advice. I think one of the ways 4 is more complicated than 2 is how rather than just building 5*3 '41 infantry divisions you have to choose the parts, then build them, then train the men. It can then be hard to spot where the bottle necks are, or if you are overproducing small arms. I think a useful solution for beginners and a necessary one for minors is to streamline. In essence I have been trying to recreate the infantry spam min/maxing of 2.
I think this means the best division template is 7 inf 2 art support art. Only. This only requires small arms and art to build so is relatively cheap to build. You don't need to worry about messing around with at and aa, mot, mech, tanks etc. So it allows you to focus your production. Eventually you will need mp brigades for your cav partisan divisions so you can start adding in eng/recon/logistics companies to give your inf a bit of mobility. It also means you don't have to research a lot of tech which means you can keep your industrial tech up to scratch, your inf tech practically ahead of time and have one team dedicated to land doctrine permanently. You can then work on getting air or navy a bit better when you are on top of core techs.
In single player you barely ever come up against tanks, so I think focusing on soft attack is a good idea. For doctrine I would take superior firepower with dispersed attack and then the right second branch as this maxes your inf and art effectiveness. As a minor you get a great fascists national focus that gives you 5% manpower which means extensive conscription and war economy puts you in a pretty good place.
When it comes to building divisions out of your stock pile train as many as you can at once. There is no point building serials of 10*5 build 50 at once. Delete the spare serials that do not automatically fill. Then set up a second small serial of a few divisions to use your future production. This also helps you see what you have been over producing (ie as you blow your stockpile you see that you still need more art, so increase production of that.)
Another gamey trick is to add new production as a new serial. This means you don't waste your old gearing bonus.
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I did my test twice, and I have to say that I am very pleased with the results.
As Germany, using Heavy Tank TDs (first model only) against France and Benelux worked very well. 70% of battles resulted in the my divisions not being pierced. I was piercing 100% of enemy armor. The Allies never stood a chance. I didn't have that many actual armor divisions, but it was almost like most battles were armored engagement anyway, thanks to the TDs.
Against the Soviets, I had invested a ton of XP into the first model Heavy Tank TD. And until 1942 (when I had them almost defeated), the Soviets were still getting 50-60% failure to penetrate against my infantry divisions. When I upgraded to the next model and finally got them into the field, the ratio went way up.
With the Soviets defeated in late 1942, I began preparations for Sea Lion. When I executed the plan, the British and Americans had better AT, and my 1941 Heavy Tank TDs were getting pierced more often. But when I upgraded to the next nice model and put enough into production, the ratio creeped up to around 40% of battles the enemy could not penetrate. (Again, these are against my foot infantry divisions.)
Then I tried it as Japan. Even with the crappy initial model Heavy Tank TD, the Chinese were basically unable to pierce any of my divisions: 100% of battles were battles where they could not pierce. Against the Soviets, the ratio dropped, but as Japan, one difficulty I had was keeping my equipment stockpiles up. (Attrition and supply problems were really sapping my unit strength.) This lack of equipment problem had an impact, but I don't know how many battles resulted in my units being pierced due to lack of equipment. We were penetrating Soviet divisions every time I looked.
I want to point out that a single battalion of Heavy Tank TDs is only around 20 vehicles. It's not that many. It adds up over time when you have 150 foot infantry divisions, but it's more than doable even for Japan (if you allocate factories and divisions to supply regions better than I did).
I am still not sure where the balance between TDs and ART and INF lies, but there is a real benefit to throwing in some heavy TDs into foot infantry divisions. Speed is not an issue, so no XP needs to be spent on engine upgrades. You can focus on reliability, armor, with some left overs for the main gun.
@GAGA Extrem,
What do you recommend regarding support company unit setups and strategy?
Especially in relation to division composition and combat width?
Fill all five? Use only the most useful?
Which ones when?
What do you recommend regarding support company unit setups and strategy?
Especially in relation to division composition and combat width?
Fill all five? Use only the most useful?
Which ones when?
The self propelled AA is the cheapest option to put some armor on your infantry. The light one even has better armor than the tank. You get enough armor piercing to punch trough similar formations as well, and utility of AA against CAS spam, which could be pretty useful.