Before Plantagenet – A House d’Anjou AAR

[TheButterflyComposer]

Your poor, poor doctors. Which, in fairness to you, you're probably right since most medieval doctors were quacks. But that's one set of lords you don't want to work for.
I do praise Adalmode. Maybe she was just lucky, but the nun was pretty ace in her treatments. The only character I remember dying from an illness that maybe she could have done better on was Roubaud, Alearde's son. Everyone else has come back from deathly ailments to survive. She gave an old Beatritz three years with cancer through successful treatments. (I won't blame her for Aines) She's probably the best physician I've had in a CK2 game - and possibly the longest lived.

Interesting. I would have thought the Black Death would cause some serious instability, with regencies and claimant wars galore. But it ended up just unified through inheritance? Fun.
Sad what happened to Eastern Europe though. Having played my longest CK2 game there, spanning the Charlamagne start date all the way through the end, I have a little bit of love for the region.

Remember what we were saying about the seduction mechanic leading to some real nastiness? Every single person in that particular game (tbf, the game in which I was trying to make the world go dark) who had any learning whatsoever was a raging sex demon (now of course that meant that all the monks and so-called pious people were affected...so I don't know whether this was deliberate or not) and most of the doctors I've seen in my court and beyond became not only serial adulterers and rapists (regardless of gender I might add) but also became the court tutor as well and so was in charge of many of the kids in the court...

Having switched back to the Pendragon game for a bit, I was thus extremely mistrustful of any and all medical professionals. The only doctor I have ever had in either game that was good, kind, wholesome, competent and capable of reliably curing everyone was in fact [SPOILER, because she's in the next chapter!]. But she was very good in spite of it. Funny how that world works, isn't it?

Yeah, the Black Death caused chaos in other parts of the world. It messed up the East quite a bit. But in the West, the only kingdoms that had survived were strong ones ruled by a single family each (because...well, I'd been playing for a few centuries by then). So it was annoying when specific members died because I had specific marriage arrangements and alliances, but the countries themselves had enough family members to take the strain. The only ones that really suffered were the ones struggling already (I simply absorbed them) and in the outer reaches of the Empire (Iberia and Norway). So basically we had like four super dukes in Albion who owned half the Empire between them and the rest ended up under the Pendragon personally. Then they all started to die so I inherited a bunch of land and instituted imperial law. So things got less chaotic the longer the Black Death was in town.

Though saying that, I haven't played past it yet so I may be about to collapse. I don't know.

As for the update, it is as we suspected. France is in crisis and the transfer of power...there isn't going to be any. Half of France will not bow to this new king whilst the other half is war torn and exhausted. And then there's Anjou, which must be courted by the new king, because he is weak and Foulques is strong, and the king does not have anything like the capacity to change that balance any way other than begging the Duke for help. And...since that means Foulques could literally ask for anything, that might happen.

But I don't want him to do that. I want him to reconcile or at least form a working relationship with Geoffrey and together crush this new monarch and put the prince on the throne. I think if Foulques is worried about his immortal soul in his old age, this would be a quest that would absolve him of most of his sins (at least, in the eyes of that era). And I think the two could succeed in doing that if they worked together and got the sons out of Melun quickly enough. It all depends actually on that. If the princes escape, they'll be a civil war immediately. If they don't, there will still be one but it won't be for their sake.

Very good chapter.

 

[Lithu]

A very good chapter. The part with Toulouse and Burgundy was well thought out.

As for the king's death, it was kind of expected at this point. I think Foulques will follow him soon rather than late. There are some hints in this chapter, and I remember that when I read it all in three days, I was awaiting Foulques death for the 10 or 15 last chapter. You gave at a moment a hint about the number of chapters remaining with him alive, I wish I would remember what it was.

 

[stnylan]

The King is Dead. Let the carrion crows flock and circle above, for they shall soon be well-glutted, unless I miss my guess.

The final conversation with the King was touching, and full of truth. Ugly truth perhaps, but truth. The most sincere being that Foulques has indeed by the rock in the Son of Satan's tenure, the one absolute constant. It is a worthwhile reflection. I cannot think of a better man for the King to choose to try and exercise some control on what happens beyond.

 

[lucas7500]

Wow, this chapter was really touching and emotional. I am quite saddened by Philippe's passing and even more worried of what will come and be of the Kingdom of France. Foulques's already lost Amáury, but he has not only lost a friend, but his best key to influence in France, the King.

 

[tpmcinty]

Wow what a chapter. I had to read it twice to absorb all that happen. Everything that Philippe has built appears to be on the verge of collapse. It seems like old vendettas are about to collected on. I think the king gave Foulques a way to survive and perhaps become stronger by telling him to support Geoffrey. Hopefully as Foulques reflects on his life he understands and seizes the opportunity the king has given him for the House of Anjou.

 

[Asantahene]

Gosh I was seriously moved by the final scene between the dying king and his ‘friend’, for even if Foulques has his doubts about that epithet the facts are still true: the Duke was the only one who stood by him through thick and thin. I actually teared up reading it...

And so to chaos. I cannot blame Phillipe for planting the seed. Anjou and Aquitaine are nigh on invincible together and a serious thorn in the usurper king’s side. Can you explain the mechanics of why the crown won’t pass to Phillipe’s son? Is it because he’s held prisoner? Why does the Uncle usurp?

 

[Specialist290]

I have to admit that I felt Philippe's death weigh particularly on me, and not merely because he was one of my favorite characters. Here we see a man who came to the throne young and full of promise, who struggled against titanic forces to keep and cultivate his power and wealth -- and, despite all that he seemed to have accomplish, in the end he departs the world a physical and emotional wreck, a hollow, much-diminished shell of the man he once was. He bore the weight of the crown well on his uneasy brow, yet in the end it dragged him down and left him broken.

Another thought crossed my mind regarding not merely the King's death itself, but the collateral effects it has caused: "The mills of God grind slowly, yet they grind exceeding fine." Plots and animosities years in the making, some long thought dormant, are bubbling to the surface in a sudden fervor, with Philippe's lifeblood acting as the solvent in some kind of political alchemy.

 

[guillec87]

oh no,... France will fall... but a new Kingdom might arise from the ashes... a d'Anjou kingdom...

 

[JabberJock14]

A rey muerto, godo puesto, as they say here, the interregnum promises to be bloody and the restructuring of the realm will bring a lot of change. Let's see if the Angevins can ride the wave and reap benefit from the lack, or severe weakening of authority

Angevin ambition is certainly going to come up quite quickly in this new reign. And while CK2 doesn't necessarily model the "lack of authority" well - especially since the destruction of crown authority - you are going to see the most powerful vassals do their own thing, with limited interference.

Remember what we were saying about the seduction mechanic leading to some real nastiness? Every single person in that particular game (tbf, the game in which I was trying to make the world go dark) who had any learning whatsoever was a raging sex demon (now of course that meant that all the monks and so-called pious people were affected...so I don't know whether this was deliberate or not) and most of the doctors I've seen in my court and beyond became not only serial adulterers and rapists (regardless of gender I might add) but also became the court tutor as well and so was in charge of many of the kids in the court...

Having switched back to the Pendragon game for a bit, I was thus extremely mistrustful of any and all medical professionals. The only doctor I have ever had in either game that was good, kind, wholesome, competent and capable of reliably curing everyone was in fact [SPOILER, because she's in the next chapter!]. But she was very good in spite of it. Funny how that world works, isn't it?

Yeah, the Black Death caused chaos in other parts of the world. It messed up the East quite a bit. But in the West, the only kingdoms that had survived were strong ones ruled by a single family each (because...well, I'd been playing for a few centuries by then). So it was annoying when specific members died because I had specific marriage arrangements and alliances, but the countries themselves had enough family members to take the strain. The only ones that really suffered were the ones struggling already (I simply absorbed them) and in the outer reaches of the Empire (Iberia and Norway). So basically we had like four super dukes in Albion who owned half the Empire between them and the rest ended up under the Pendragon personally. Then they all started to die so I inherited a bunch of land and instituted imperial law. So things got less chaotic the longer the Black Death was in town.

Though saying that, I haven't played past it yet so I may be about to collapse. I don't know.

As for the update, it is as we suspected. France is in crisis and the transfer of power...there isn't going to be any. Half of France will not bow to this new king whilst the other half is war torn and exhausted. And then there's Anjou, which must be courted by the new king, because he is weak and Foulques is strong, and the king does not have anything like the capacity to change that balance any way other than begging the Duke for help. And...since that means Foulques could literally ask for anything, that might happen.

But I don't want him to do that. I want him to reconcile or at least form a working relationship with Geoffrey and together crush this new monarch and put the prince on the throne. I think if Foulques is worried about his immortal soul in his old age, this would be a quest that would absolve him of most of his sins (at least, in the eyes of that era). And I think the two could succeed in doing that if they worked together and got the sons out of Melun quickly enough. It all depends actually on that. If the princes escape, they'll be a civil war immediately. If they don't, there will still be one but it won't be for their sake.

Very good chapter.

That's kind of crazy about the seduction. Obviously lords can choose it, but since courtiers don't have the option for focuses... was it just because your tutors were all lustful hedonists?

But the Black Death can be unpredictable. Will be interesting to see what happens in this game, if I get that far.

I think you have the sides lined up - everyone suffered to a degree over the last few years, either because of the civil war or their own internal conflicts. Anjou was blissfully exempt from that - even the losses they sustained fighting Gilles and the battle against Champagne, was light. Unfortunately, something else is around the corner that may limit them a tad - something that was mentioned a few chapters ago.

Spoilers limit what I can say, but what you want may at least partially happen.

Thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed it.

A very good chapter. The part with Toulouse and Burgundy was well thought out.

As for the king's death, it was kind of expected at this point. I think Foulques will follow him soon rather than late. There are some hints in this chapter, and I remember that when I read it all in three days, I was awaiting Foulques death for the 10 or 15 last chapter. You gave at a moment a hint about the number of chapters remaining with him alive, I wish I would remember what it was.

Thanks! Toulouse and Burgundy kind of just... fell into place. It wasn't like I planned it back in Chapter 32 (after all, this had not happened yet). But it was one of those things where the superficial similarities made it too tempting not to use.

I agree, Philippe's time was coming. Whether it happened now or in a few gameplay years mattered only in whether he managed to put the rebellion down. He didn't, so... that will shake things up.

I did give a hint to how long Foulques will live in a response a while back, though it was admittedly vague. I could give a similar hint here, but I fear it would count as a spoiler. If you want that hint, which really is spoiler-iffic, PM me.

The King is Dead. Let the carrion crows flock and circle above, for they shall soon be well-glutted, unless I miss my guess.

The final conversation with the King was touching, and full of truth. Ugly truth perhaps, but truth. The most sincere being that Foulques has indeed by the rock in the Son of Satan's tenure, the one absolute constant. It is a worthwhile reflection. I cannot think of a better man for the King to choose to try and exercise some control on what happens beyond.

One thing I have kept somewhat constant in these last few gameplay years is that Philippe and Foulques tended to have rather frank, ugly conversations. The atmosphere was set by Philippe's dour mood, and it tended to drag Foulques down there with him as a result. But it is clear that with everything stripped away, Philippe sees clearly one final time. Whether that faith will be misplaced, especially given that he also knows the dukes in the realm are snakes - and Foulques himself admitted to doing rather unsavory things - is of course, a risk.

Wow, this chapter was really touching and emotional. I am quite saddened by Philippe's passing and even more worried of what will come and be of the Kingdom of France. Foulques's already lost Amáury, but he has not only lost a friend, but his best key to influence in France, the King.

I was going for touching and emotional, so I'm glad it hit home. France is going to have a (relatively) weak king at the helm, but a weak king who will almost certainly know he's weak. That could prevent things from going too poorly for him, especially if his powerful vassals find other outlets for their levies. He also is helped, for now, by the fact that two of those powerful vassals are children.

That loss of influence is what will sting most of all. And may drive Foulques toward other pursuits, outside of the king, to throw his weight around.

Wow what a chapter. I had to read it twice to absorb all that happen. Everything that Philippe has built appears to be on the verge of collapse. It seems like old vendettas are about to collected on. I think the king gave Foulques a way to survive and perhaps become stronger by telling him to support Geoffrey. Hopefully as Foulques reflects on his life he understands and seizes the opportunity the king has given him for the House of Anjou.

Philippe's legacy is definitely precarious and his throne gone. But... there may be some hope left for his children.

As for whether Foulques will seize the opportunity... he's always gone about things in his own way. You'll see how he handles this bit of advice in the next chapter.

Gosh I was seriously moved by the final scene between the dying king and his ‘friend’, for even if Foulques has his doubts about that epithet the facts are still true: the Duke was the only one who stood by him through thick and thin. I actually teared up reading it...

And so to chaos. I cannot blame Phillipe for planting the seed. Anjou and Aquitaine are nigh on invincible together and a serious thorn in the usurper king’s side. Can you explain the mechanics of why the crown won’t pass to Phillipe’s son? Is it because he’s held prisoner? Why does the Uncle usurp?

Thank you! That's what I was going for. I was hoping to tug at the heart strings a bit, especially as yet another mainstay from Foulques life - his true second "marriage" as it were given their previous conversation - has passed. The end of an era for sure.

So, Prince Alphonse is now King Alphonse. In fact, the save point I have is from July 15, the day after Philippe was murdered. So if you fired that up, you'd see King Alphonse I there and in some of the screenshots I use next chapter, you'll see him as the liege. But the claimant war for Hugues continues past Philippe's death, and against Alphonse. Since he's held by Champagne, it's instant -100 warscore and victory for Champagne. Based off grabbing Alphonse in a separate war half a decade before. Which is just...

I have to admit that I felt Philippe's death weigh particularly on me, and not merely because he was one of my favorite characters. Here we see a man who came to the throne young and full of promise, who struggled against titanic forces to keep and cultivate his power and wealth -- and, despite all that he seemed to have accomplish, in the end he departs the world a physical and emotional wreck, a hollow, much-diminished shell of the man he once was. He bore the weight of the crown well on his uneasy brow, yet in the end it dragged him down and left him broken.

Another thought crossed my mind regarding not merely the King's death itself, but the collateral effects it has caused: "The mills of God grind slowly, yet they grind exceeding fine." Plots and animosities years in the making, some long thought dormant, are bubbling to the surface in a sudden fervor, with Philippe's lifeblood acting as the solvent in some kind of political alchemy.

You make a good point on the rise and fall of Philippe in this work. Given the pace, it's as if we've spent a lifetime with him. We heard of him as the child king, we saw him ascend as a teen, suffer the loss of his true love, marry again, have his relationship with Foulques ebb and flow, appear on the road to becoming a great king of France, to dying unfulfilled with his ambitions complete dashed. It was a journey of a lifetime, because it was a journey that very much encompassed a lifetime. In some ways, it was the first of this work - Foulques we saw as a man. Beatritz was older than him. As were the Dukes Robert and Guilhem. Aines wasn't, but we basically met her as an adult.

There is one other character who I think mirrors Philippe in this journey - not necessarily with the same political fallouts - but growth and change. And I suspect when their journey comes to an end, much earlier than perhaps expected, it may illicit a similar, yet different feeling. (That character will leave on a much higher note than our poor king did)

The lack of central authority, whether it was to rally around or rally against, is something that definitely played a role in the way the realm operated. The good news for the new king - if these vassals are focused on each other or their own selfish goals, they won't be focused on him.

oh no,... France will fall... but a new Kingdom might arise from the ashes... a d'Anjou kingdom...

Don't necessarily write off France just yet! (If only because fabricating a claim on the kingdom is not easy!)

All - I'm glad you guys liked the chapter, and if it hit home emotionally, all the better! This has been one of the chapters I've been looking forward to writing (send offs for some reason, appeal to me) and Philippe has been one of my favorite characters in this work. As I've mentioned before, I intended to play more historical with him as a rival to Foulques, but it didn't quite work out that way. Still, I felt he proved a worthy adversary/friend in someone who frequently was quite good at not giving Foulques what he wanted, and showing our duke, while powerful, was not all powerful.

I again also want to give @coz1 partial credit. His Rightful King inspired this work, and his portrayal of Philippe there, who was arguably even more tragic in that story, definitely colored how I wanted to show the king as a likable individual. As I believe @Specialist290 pointed out a while back - Philippe and Beatritz were very much the co-stars of much of this story. It is always difficult to see them exit, and a little scary as to who can step up and fill their shoes.

I will also admit the last years of Foulques life, however long that may be , don't lend themselves to the building narrative as well as these last 10 years or so have. There are definitely events, but they felt more... random in a way, as I look back over my notes. So I am wondering how I shall portray them. I think I have a general theme I want to go with, but how to connect it all - that's where the challenge is going to be.

But of course, that's a question that will only start in earnest when we get done with Part III. I hope to drop that Friday, but my Thursday may be busy, so we'll see how that goes. Otherwise, Saturday or Sunday.

Thanks, as always, for the comments and feedback! It is the lifeblood of AARs and help drive this narrative forward.

 

[Badesumofu]

A brilliant send-off for Phillipe. It was touching, even while reminding us of all the awful things these two men have done.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

And while CK2 doesn't necessarily model the "lack of authority" well - especially since the destruction of crown authority - you are going to see the most powerful vassals do their own thing, with limited interference.

Depends on the realm of course. Pagans are always quite chaotic whilst republics are generally exceptionally stable (everyone is trying to kill people on their level and only their level, usually through assassination. So it's only people at the very top who can screw with the nation and they usually don't because they're usually friends with at least two other head of houses. It's a fascinating thing to watch, let alone try to lead a republic game). Lack of authority is generally only noticably unrealistic in that it can be fixed very quickly in feudal realms...which is the complete opposite to reality.

That's kind of crazy about the seduction. Obviously lords can choose it, but since courtiers don't have the option for focuses... was it just because your tutors were all lustful hedonists?

They can't? Wait...so they all just randomly decided to pull that shit? Now I'm going to have to look in my save files (there's going to have to be some sort of sex plauge to explain all the buggery and such when/if I ever find the courage to write about the 'come hither' period of Venetian history). Though it does make me think the game might random generate courtiers that take after their masters and followers in some respects, which means that the seduction and general bad behaviour stats would spread like a disease from one court to another and so on. But to figure that out I'd either have to go through the code or scientifically induce these conditions repeatedly over multiple games to see what happens and to be honest, I don't think I could do it again. That exact level of manic sex and insanity was a one shit trick. In that way it was much like the 1970's, so I've been led to believe.

I think you have the sides lined up - everyone suffered to a degree over the last few years, either because of the civil war or their own internal conflicts. Anjou was blissfully exempt from that - even the losses they sustained fighting Gilles and the battle against Champagne, was light. Unfortunately, something else is around the corner that may limit them a tad - something that was mentioned a few chapters ago.

Spoilers limit what I can say, but what you want may at least partially happen.

Ah...I did wonder about several things that had been foreshadowed about Foulques and Geoffrey. I guess talking about the sex mechanics for CKII was my subtle smokescreen there.

So, Prince Alphonse is now King Alphonse. In fact, the save point I have is from July 15, the day after Philippe was murdered. So if you fired that up, you'd see King Alphonse I there and in some of the screenshots I use next chapter, you'll see him as the liege. But the claimant war for Hugues continues past Philippe's death, and against Alphonse. Since he's held by Champagne, it's instant -100 warscore and victory for Champagne. Based off grabbing Alphonse in a separate war half a decade before. Which is just...

That...is a tactic I haven't thought of yet I know happened in real life. How annoying. I shall try to use that at some point myself in a game. How chess mastery would that be to pull off, to go from count to king in one lifetime by imprisoning one guy a ton the start of your reign and ensuring he becomes king, and then stealing his throne!

I again also want to give @coz1 partial credit. His Rightful King inspired this work, and his portrayal of Philippe there, who was arguably even more tragic in that story,

His portrayal was sad indeed, because his kingdom fell to bits and he couldn't do anything to stop it, so in-universe I would say that it's tragic and out of universe, depressing (and compelling).

However, Phillipe's story here is actually tragic in the classical sense. We knew, we all knew (and we all said in the beginning) that he was licked, that France was in big trouble and that he probably wasn't going to achieve much. But then the storytelling made us forget and support him anyway, raised hopes that his 'restored' kingdom might actually work out right up until the first civil wars started happening and even then, there were hope spots like the return from Valencia and the Duke and King's plans for the future. But then he fell like we all knew he would and France truly is in dire peril. And it was a mixture of his own errors caused by personal flaws and Chance/dramatic Fate.

That's tragedy.

 

[Bullfilter]

Just getting to read and comment on the last classic chapter now. I will echo the words of praise about the writing, storytelling and complex emotions portrayed.

I guess the point I am left with though - and Philippe touches on it at the end but without really apologising for it - is that Foulques has been used far more in this relationship than the king. Philippe has mercilessly taken advantage of Foulques’ abilities and support and never really given him anything of substance that I can easily recall.

I think Philippe has been the soft spot of a hard man. Geoffrey would not have been so accommodating. Don’t get me wrong, the king probably had to play it that way, and it has been the major thing that has made Foulques likeable as a character: he ultimately played it honourably and can claim that.

So I suspect he will also try to honour those last requests - which sound to me like very strong hints from the authAAR of where he would like Foulques to aim next and give him compelling narrative reasons for doing so. Whether things quite work out that way, well ... who’s to say?

I add my thanks to all the others for the great story and look forward to seeing how this great shake-up of France’s power dynamics plays out. A weak king should surely favour House d’Anjou!

 

[cm_spitfire]

That was a fantastic chapter!! I loved the dialogue between Phillipe & Foulques - really very touching. Great stuff.

 

[PVT Ascoobis]

Out of the fires of chaos, new opportunities are forged. A really touching send-off for Phillipe, I also had to read it twice, mostly because I was dog tired last night and simply couldn't wrap my head around everything.

Yes, claim wars are a truly terrible mechanic. But... it wasn't unknown for lords back in the day to seize children of other lords to use as negotiating chips. So, I can see this happening. With "The King is dead, long live the King" in place, Alphonse would be the true king until Champagne and his pretender could get to the throne room and quietly depose him. Having a trusted group of retainers spirit the boy away, well... that's also a staple of fantasy literature, as well as something that from time to time historically happened, as well. As weak as the new King will be, having him spirited away to Normandy and under the protection of Foulques/Geoffrey through the marriage to Bella, well, he'll truly be out of the reach of the King himself, though not the omnipresent assassins, which would be a far greater concern to all involved.

The biggest question for me moving forward is how Foulques will take advantage of the chaos. He is certainly the type to do so, but he seems oddly unwilling to risk his men for the sake of his ambition. But, having a familial alliance running from Normandy and Brittany down to Aquitaine, and possibly Gascony as well in the future, will make it all but impossible to avoid future entanglements with the crown. It will be interesting to see if Foulques, and especially Geoffrey, will be willing to continue playing second fiddle to the Capets. Part of the difficulty that you are having with fabricating a claim on the throne is that you need both plot score and willing conspirators - and power is simply too consolidated in your hands to get either. IIRC you need 100% plot score and 5 backers. Neither of which seems likely to happen in a realm as fractured and uneasy as France these days.

My best guess is that Foulques doesn't have the time remaining to make a serious go of reinstalling Alphonse on the throne, and Geoffrey will be too consumed with his own ambitions to bother with those of his father and brother-in-law. I could be wrong, but it just doesn't seem likely to happen. The risk/reward for Foulques will be closer to even once Bella has conceived an heir with Alphonse, but even then it'll be touch and go unless he has a lot of allies in the faction. Or the dreaded "died in childbirth" event will fire and your plans will be for naught.

As for the Black Death... I've never actually had a main character die of it during an epidemic. I actually just got the achievement like 2 days ago, when the Sigurdr Ring died of the plague in like 780, completely randomly, maybe 5 counties away from the Empire of Scandinavia. But I've had several playthroughs last through multiple epidemics, and the vast majority wind up consolidating and pacifying the realms. Part of the issue is that your lands become so depopulated that attrition destroys your forces before they can do anything. The other problem is that you lose half of the claims you had in your court because people kick off. It's a really mixed bag until the depopulation goes away. Then you take stock and look for weaknesses.

And AI Seduction Focus can destroy a realm. Negative opinion modifiers for cucking, rivalries, boosted intrigue scores plus all of the attraction modifiers can lead to a lot of people willing to join just about any plot. I never turn it off, but it seems to cause far more harm than good. It definitely makes it interesting.

Simply a fantastic chapter, and a touching ending to Phillippe's life. It feels as though an era has come to an end, though it won't truly until Foulques kicks off as well. Then all of the main characters from 1066 will be as dust, though their actions will continue to reverberate through the realm for decades to come. Well done.

Edit: I'd love to see who picked up the Known Murderer malus the day the King died since the plot was uncovered. It'd make for an interesting council meeting.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Part of the difficulty that you are having with fabricating a claim on the throne is that you need both plot score and willing conspirators - and power is simply too consolidated in your hands to get either. IIRC you need 100% plot score and 5 backers. Neither of which seems likely to happen in a realm as fractured and uneasy as France these days.

This goes through history as well. People who, for whatever reason cannot be king instead take over as much of the realm as possible and wait to absorb the rest after one of their 'peers' or their king does something stupid. I think at this point it would be faster and more effective for Geoffrey to just take over France by taking all of the duchies he can and just ignoring the Crown. In-universe, the threat of a Normandy restoration would keep the new king far away for a long time, and though the new kings must try to deal with Anjou, Anjou is not only the most powerful faction in the realm but als the only that can most easily succeed by simply conquering Brittany and crowing themselves king of that. If they then made their ally and friend in Normandy the new king of France as well, then they set themselves up in a powerful alliance for fifty years or so.

 

[PVT Ascoobis]

In-universe, the threat of a Normandy restoration would keep the new king far away for a long time, and though the new kings must try to deal with Anjou, Anjou is not only the most powerful faction in the realm but als the only that can most easily succeed by simply conquering Brittany and crowing themselves king of that. If they then made their ally and friend in Normandy the new king of France as well, then they set themselves up in a powerful alliance for fifty years or so.

The only minor sticking point to that plan is that in order for it to succeed, he must first declare independence, as you can neither create nor usurp a title of the same tier as your top liege AFAIK. So, it would be civil war regardless of the crown that is being looked at. I'm sure he could get a faction to fire in short order given his strength relative to the rest of the Kingdom, but Jabber seems to be actively resisting the incessant chattering readers and their desires for more glory

 

[guillec87]

Foulques could easily put Alphonse back on the thrones if he wants to

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Foulques could easily put Alphonse back on the thrones if he wants to

Got to get to him first. Game mechanics aside, in-universe the kid's going to be under lock and key until at least the day of the coronation of the guy that nicked his crown and after that, probably quietly killed. Now gameplay wise we know he's probably going to get released or ransomed pretty quickly after the crown is stolen but there's no garuntees. Not in this work where assassination attempts actually work and the AI is occasionally very sneaky indeed.

 

[JabberJock14]

A brilliant send-off for Phillipe. It was touching, even while reminding us of all the awful things these two men have done.

Thanks! As I've said, I like my send-offs! I am already plotting Foulques' eventual departure as well. (That isn't a hint as to when he'll die - I usually start thinking about these grand send-offs a bit in advance)

Depends on the realm of course. Pagans are always quite chaotic whilst republics are generally exceptionally stable (everyone is trying to kill people on their level and only their level, usually through assassination. So it's only people at the very top who can screw with the nation and they usually don't because they're usually friends with at least two other head of houses. It's a fascinating thing to watch, let alone try to lead a republic game). Lack of authority is generally only noticably unrealistic in that it can be fixed very quickly in feudal realms...which is the complete opposite to reality.



They can't? Wait...so they all just randomly decided to pull that shit? Now I'm going to have to look in my save files (there's going to have to be some sort of sex plauge to explain all the buggery and such when/if I ever find the courage to write about the 'come hither' period of Venetian history). Though it does make me think the game might random generate courtiers that take after their masters and followers in some respects, which means that the seduction and general bad behaviour stats would spread like a disease from one court to another and so on. But to figure that out I'd either have to go through the code or scientifically induce these conditions repeatedly over multiple games to see what happens and to be honest, I don't think I could do it again. That exact level of manic sex and insanity was a one shit trick. In that way it was much like the 1970's, so I've been led to believe.




Ah...I did wonder about several things that had been foreshadowed about Foulques and Geoffrey. I guess talking about the sex mechanics for CKII was my subtle smokescreen there.



That...is a tactic I haven't thought of yet I know happened in real life. How annoying. I shall try to use that at some point myself in a game. How chess mastery would that be to pull off, to go from count to king in one lifetime by imprisoning one guy a ton the start of your reign and ensuring he becomes king, and then stealing his throne!



His portrayal was sad indeed, because his kingdom fell to bits and he couldn't do anything to stop it, so in-universe I would say that it's tragic and out of universe, depressing (and compelling).

However, Phillipe's story here is actually tragic in the classical sense. We knew, we all knew (and we all said in the beginning) that he was licked, that France was in big trouble and that he probably wasn't going to achieve much. But then the storytelling made us forget and support him anyway, raised hopes that his 'restored' kingdom might actually work out right up until the first civil wars started happening and even then, there were hope spots like the return from Valencia and the Duke and King's plans for the future. But then he fell like we all knew he would and France truly is in dire peril. And it was a mixture of his own errors caused by personal flaws and Chance/dramatic Fate.

That's tragedy.

I have never messed around in Republic games, sticking to Feudal and Tribal, which I always go Feudal with. So yeah, usually my situations just turn into a "might makes right" situation. Which is why I've had a little fun with this AAR because in playing it slow I've let crazy events play out around me. Things like Geoffrey becoming duke via AI scheming is more interesting to me than if I had just decided to install Geoffrey as Duke when Guilhem died and Alberic was in a regency.

On the seduction focus - yes, I'm 99% certain that only landed characters Count-level and higher can choose Way of Life Focuses, seduction included. However, I believe all characters can get events to have extramarital relationships (see Marguerite and Geoffrey). And one seduction character in a realm can really mess things up. Take Gilles for example. He impregnated five women in the Angevin court (Agnes, Etiennette, Etiennette's mother, Etiennette's sister and Alearde). If you count Aines, who wasn't seduced but died young, I believe that was half the available women and all the ones without husbands. And to a lesser degree, there was Geoffrey, who seduced multiple Countesses of Eu, the daughter of the Duke of Burgundy, hit on Ness, Agnes, and got at least three women pregnant (and maybe more, since if they are married and the father doesn't suspect, it becomes hard to track down unless they've got a 'former lover' modifier).

And I'm pretty sure almost every lord gets a "I think X fancies me" event, because many of the lords that don't take seduction often have lovers. Burgundy did, and I noticed both Duchess Peronelle and the Countess Almodis do as well, despite neither being seduction. So to sum up, seduction certain speeds things along but CK2 likes is extramarital affairs.

I'm sure the AI stumbled upon that tactic by happenstance, but it was so effective that I had to use it as a plot point. I already knew how it would end a while ago, so that was part of why I wrote Champagne as so... defiant. Having the prince was an extremely powerful tool. (It would take a lot work to replicate, but it might be possible with a high intrigue character)

I thought of your definition of tragedy when I wrote that out - that the two Philippes fit two definitions - so I definitely agree with your analysis there. The latter falls in the more Greek version of it - a very talented young man, ambitious and intelligent. He's talented enough to achieve a great deal - and talented enough to push so much as to bring about his own downfall. Philippe did a great deal on his own and I was often impressed by the AI's ability to hold the realm together. But one mistake - Valencia - undid it all.

Just getting to read and comment on the last classic chapter now. I will echo the words of praise about the writing, storytelling and complex emotions portrayed.

I guess the point I am left with though - and Philippe touches on it at the end but without really apologising for it - is that Foulques has been used far more in this relationship than the king. Philippe has mercilessly taken advantage of Foulques’ abilities and support and never really given him anything of substance that I can easily recall.

I think Philippe has been the soft spot of a hard man. Geoffrey would not have been so accommodating. Don’t get me wrong, the king probably had to play it that way, and it has been the major thing that has made Foulques likeable as a character: he ultimately played it honourably and can claim that.

So I suspect he will also try to honour those last requests - which sound to me like very strong hints from the authAAR of where he would like Foulques to aim next and give him compelling narrative reasons for doing so. Whether things quite work out that way, well ... who’s to say?

I add my thanks to all the others for the great story and look forward to seeing how this great shake-up of France’s power dynamics plays out. A weak king should surely favour House d’Anjou!

Thanks! It's good to hear the feedback on how well-received this chapter was. It was a big moment, and you always want your big moment to land.

I intended that. Philippe got a great deal out of his relationship with Foulques. Perhaps that was a bit of meta-commentary echoed by many of the commentators here - that I could have already had France by the neck if I wanted to, but let Foulques get kind of pushed over by the king at times.

But there's also a bit of gameplay/story segregation going on there. (A subject which I'll touch on again in a bit) In terms of tangible in-game assets, Foulques got little from Philippe. In terms of story aspects, respect, influence and relatively free-reign are not insignificant. Nobody could essentially tell Foulques no, and with the king looking to keep him happy, no one could run to the king either. Geoffrey was the closest they got, and in the end, Philippe basically backs down and lets Geoffrey do as he pleases.

Hints you say? Why yes, yes. Of course, one trick I've learned is that I'll look back at a save file and say "man that's a good idea. I wish I had done that" and throw it in as a possibility. Obviously, since I'm not going to replay any more of Foulques' life, that's as far as that can go. Not saying this is one of those times, of course.

Working on those power dynamics now! It's a rough outline, more than a definitive plan, besides some big events I want to touch on (including the biggest, which is our good Duke's passing - I'll say that's coming in the next decade).

That was a fantastic chapter!! I loved the dialogue between Phillipe & Foulques - really very touching. Great stuff.

Thanks! I went over that a few times to get it the way I wanted. Glad you enjoyed it!

Out of the fires of chaos, new opportunities are forged. A really touching send-off for Phillipe, I also had to read it twice, mostly because I was dog tired last night and simply couldn't wrap my head around everything.

Yes, claim wars are a truly terrible mechanic. But... it wasn't unknown for lords back in the day to seize children of other lords to use as negotiating chips. So, I can see this happening. With "The King is dead, long live the King" in place, Alphonse would be the true king until Champagne and his pretender could get to the throne room and quietly depose him. Having a trusted group of retainers spirit the boy away, well... that's also a staple of fantasy literature, as well as something that from time to time historically happened, as well. As weak as the new King will be, having him spirited away to Normandy and under the protection of Foulques/Geoffrey through the marriage to Bella, well, he'll truly be out of the reach of the King himself, though not the omnipresent assassins, which would be a far greater concern to all involved.

The biggest question for me moving forward is how Foulques will take advantage of the chaos. He is certainly the type to do so, but he seems oddly unwilling to risk his men for the sake of his ambition. But, having a familial alliance running from Normandy and Brittany down to Aquitaine, and possibly Gascony as well in the future, will make it all but impossible to avoid future entanglements with the crown. It will be interesting to see if Foulques, and especially Geoffrey, will be willing to continue playing second fiddle to the Capets. Part of the difficulty that you are having with fabricating a claim on the throne is that you need both plot score and willing conspirators - and power is simply too consolidated in your hands to get either. IIRC you need 100% plot score and 5 backers. Neither of which seems likely to happen in a realm as fractured and uneasy as France these days.

My best guess is that Foulques doesn't have the time remaining to make a serious go of reinstalling Alphonse on the throne, and Geoffrey will be too consumed with his own ambitions to bother with those of his father and brother-in-law. I could be wrong, but it just doesn't seem likely to happen. The risk/reward for Foulques will be closer to even once Bella has conceived an heir with Alphonse, but even then it'll be touch and go unless he has a lot of allies in the faction. Or the dreaded "died in childbirth" event will fire and your plans will be for naught.

As for the Black Death... I've never actually had a main character die of it during an epidemic. I actually just got the achievement like 2 days ago, when the Sigurdr Ring died of the plague in like 780, completely randomly, maybe 5 counties away from the Empire of Scandinavia. But I've had several playthroughs last through multiple epidemics, and the vast majority wind up consolidating and pacifying the realms. Part of the issue is that your lands become so depopulated that attrition destroys your forces before they can do anything. The other problem is that you lose half of the claims you had in your court because people kick off. It's a really mixed bag until the depopulation goes away. Then you take stock and look for weaknesses.

And AI Seduction Focus can destroy a realm. Negative opinion modifiers for cucking, rivalries, boosted intrigue scores plus all of the attraction modifiers can lead to a lot of people willing to join just about any plot. I never turn it off, but it seems to cause far more harm than good. It definitely makes it interesting.

Simply a fantastic chapter, and a touching ending to Phillippe's life. It feels as though an era has come to an end, though it won't truly until Foulques kicks off as well. Then all of the main characters from 1066 will be as dust, though their actions will continue to reverberate through the realm for decades to come. Well done.

Edit: I'd love to see who picked up the Known Murderer malus the day the King died since the plot was uncovered. It'd make for an interesting council meeting.

Normally I take a comments response in order, but I must go out of order here to give you props sir. It had not even occurred to me that there would be a second person who picked up the known murderer malus. (Even though that's what happened with Agnes with Adhemar's murder). But I did go back and look and, yup, there was a second plotter revealed. One who... just made me frown. It's going to play a part in this next chapter, and actually is having me re-do a scene completely as a result. So thank you!

My bigger issues with claim wars is how they figure out winning claims. Geoffrey gets Aquitaine but literally just gets Bordeaux. Hugues wins the crown, but as you'll see, he only gets Melun. Alphonse keeps Normandy. Which, from a story perspective can be excused by the installing lords wishing to keep their puppet weak but still makes it kind of a unstable option - claimants will often be quickly deposed. As for the dynamics with future Normandy/Anjou unions... that's something that I know will play role in the future. Possibly the near future (though not this next chapter)

I've only played a few games long enough to get the black death. I usually avoid having characters die, but there seems no way to prevent it - I've had great hospitals that stave off the plague for a time, but eventually it hits. In my huge Latvian Imperium (Eastern Europe) game, by the time the plague hit, I was so powerful depopulation didn't faze me. Nobody could touch me. (I believe by then even the Mongols had been dealt with, so I was basically into a "let's remake the map with rulers of my dynasty" phase)

Thanks and an era has come to an end. Foulques is really the only one left now among the ruling class in France. I do not believe there is a duke over 45 at this point and the new King Hugues is 44. There has been a generational change in the realm and there's but one hanger on left. But he's a stubborn hanger on.

This goes through history as well. People who, for whatever reason cannot be king instead take over as much of the realm as possible and wait to absorb the rest after one of their 'peers' or their king does something stupid. I think at this point it would be faster and more effective for Geoffrey to just take over France by taking all of the duchies he can and just ignoring the Crown. In-universe, the threat of a Normandy restoration would keep the new king far away for a long time, and though the new kings must try to deal with Anjou, Anjou is not only the most powerful faction in the realm but als the only that can most easily succeed by simply conquering Brittany and crowing themselves king of that. If they then made their ally and friend in Normandy the new king of France as well, then they set themselves up in a powerful alliance for fifty years or so.

This definitely has precedent in French history (Geoffrey Martel deposing the Merovingian kings, Hugh Capet plotting to dump the Carolingians) which does make it perfect for Geoffrey. As you note, in-universe Hugues is going to have things that keep him weak. But the new king isn't going to simply lay down. He'll be aiming to make himself stronger, by targeting those who the realm will have little issue with.

The only minor sticking point to that plan is that in order for it to succeed, he must first declare independence, as you can neither create nor usurp a title of the same tier as your top liege AFAIK. So, it would be civil war regardless of the crown that is being looked at. I'm sure he could get a faction to fire in short order given his strength relative to the rest of the Kingdom, but Jabber seems to be actively resisting the incessant chattering readers and their desires for more glory

This is accurate - I can't even form the Kingdom of Aquitaine without an independence war - which might have appeal to Geoffrey and his son through the lineage through their mothers, provided they inherit. I have considered it, because if I got any faction support - especially from Toulouse and Flanders, it'd be an easy, easy victory. But I've also hesitated because I don't want an HRE takeover, which likely would begin with France dissolving into petty kingdom. That works in England cause there's no strong force. In France, it's just asking for an HRE blob.

Foulques could easily put Alphonse back on the thrones if he wants to

Got to get to him first. Game mechanics aside, in-universe the kid's going to be under lock and key until at least the day of the coronation of the guy that nicked his crown and after that, probably quietly killed. Now gameplay wise we know he's probably going to get released or ransomed pretty quickly after the crown is stolen but there's no garuntees. Not in this work where assassination attempts actually work and the AI is occasionally very sneaky indeed.

I admit there is some precedence in real life to not killing the prince(s), provided he's a popular figure (and why wouldn't he be? He is a blank slate by which anything can be projected upon). It actually comes from the Angevins. When King John dealt with his nephew Arthur of Brittany, by most CK2 players standards, he was completely in his rights to execute Arthur for treason (I mean Arthur and his allies even went after Eleanor of Aquitaine!). But when Arthur did die in prison, and John took the blame, it only served to further his unpopularity, and was a political faux pas. Despite the fact, John WAS king already, it was a rebellion against him, and a threat to his rule, since Arthur had a good claim to the throne as the son of John's older brother. So... offing the princes could backfire on a weak king, just as much as leaving them alive would.

(On a side note, I can completely imagine a thread on these forums by a CK2 player who incurred a tyrant + kinslayer mallus for executing Arthur and then complaining all his vassals now hate him and want to rebel and how the game is so unrealistic because everyone would understand how you have to execute a traitor, even if its your family, in medieval times)

But you bring up a very good point that I kind of what to discuss (and mentioned briefly earlier) game play/story line segregation. The next chapter has been slower than I anticipated, largely for this reason. I think things would happen one way in real life, but the game doesn't let that happen. (I'm being vague, but it will be fairly obvious when the new chapter comes out). I'm curious how you other AAR writers handle these events. How much do you ignore what happens in your gameplay for the sake of character consistency, keeping it more realistically medieval?

As I've said, still working on Part III. There's been one big hold up (the gameplay/story segregation bit) and once I figure it out, the chapter should proceed smoothly. The downside is my vacation ends today, so if I can't get it done for today, it may well land sometime next week.

Thanks as always for your comments and feedback, as well as your patience!

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

(On a side note, I can completely imagine a thread on these forums by a CK2 player who incurred a tyrant + kinslayer mallus for executing Arthur and then complaining all his vassals now hate him and want to rebel and how the game is so unrealistic because everyone would understand how you have to execute a traitor, even if its your family, in medieval times)

Almost no noble was executed lightly in medieval times, it is a mark of great control and power if a ruler was able to do it frequently and get away with it (in terms of historiography). That Henry VIII and many others of his time managed to kill so many with little (visible) consequence was a mark of the times and a big show of how effective his dad had been at killing feudalism in England dead). But yeah...if family members, even if they were traitors, could be easily killed by kings, then half of the wars in Europe wouldn't have happened.