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cotwell

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I do not see how you guys do it. As England, France always declares on me and so this time I decided to build a boatload of regiments and land them in Normandy. I built two 29-regiment stacks (and built up the transport aquadron to 29 cogs) and landed them in Normandy (in succession as fast as I could.) Won the battle against about 28 French regiments, but then during the siege, attrition set in (even though mousing over the stat, it said the unit would reinforce - it clearly didn't.) Pretty soon I was down to about 26k men and the French army in Caux was at 26-28. It was just a matter of time before they and their allies came in and broke the siege. If I march into Caux I lose; if I stay where I am, I lose by attrition. I read a thread somewhere where a guy said he landed in Normandy and picked off the 15k French stacks as they came north from the siege of Gascone&Labourd. 15k stacks, right....

I have 9k watching the Scots and I'm way over my support limit. What do you guys do to deal with France? (Note: in the past, I've just ignored them. Eventually they'll offer a white peace or something pretty close, but not until I have been stripped of all my allies. Pain in the ass....):confused:
 

Caban

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I do not see how you guys do it. As England, France always declares on me and so this time I decided to build a boatload of regiments and land them in Normandy. I built two 29-regiment stacks (and built up the transport aquadron to 29 cogs) and landed them in Normandy (in succession as fast as I could.) Won the battle against about 28 French regiments, but then during the siege, attrition set in (even though mousing over the stat, it said the unit would reinforce - it clearly didn't.) Pretty soon I was down to about 26k men and the French army in Caux was at 26-28. It was just a matter of time before they and their allies came in and broke the siege. If I march into Caux I lose; if I stay where I am, I lose by attrition. I read a thread somewhere where a guy said he landed in Normandy and picked off the 15k French stacks as they came north from the siege of Gascone&Labourd. 15k stacks, right....

I have 9k watching the Scots and I'm way over my support limit. What do you guys do to deal with France? (Note: in the past, I've just ignored them. Eventually they'll offer a white peace or something pretty close, but not until I have been stripped of all my allies. Pain in the ass....):confused:

You have to be selective and wipe out stacks when you can to drive up their war exhaustion, and eventually kill their manpower. I try and get military access to bordering countries so I'll have somewhere to retreat without risking annihilation. Try and hit their big stacks right after they finish an assault as their morale will be really low, you might get really lucky and wipe them out if you chase them down.

And if you can time your war to coincide with a France v HRE war, it should be relatively easy.
 

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If i remember correctly in 1399. French start with 8 MIL ruler, while you start with what? 4? 5? This alone gives them about 0.50 land morale advantage, which is the main reason they DoW you on day one. Add to this the fact that they should have larger land force limit + larger minting capability, and it becomes pretty clear that you have no business fighting them in 1399. at all.

You options are:

a.) let them capture the two provinces in Aquitaine, without military access they wont be able to take Calais. Owning these 2 provinces will make your WE rise, but it shouldnt be problematic. Sit down and wait, build up your landforce and navalforce limits to 100% and wait. After a while, id say 5 years or so, offer them tribute of 100 gold (they might even go for 25) and youll get a peace.

b.) make your ruler a general and hope that the next guy in line gets better MIL stats. Until that French king with 8 MIL dies, youll be at a disadvantage.

c.) if you do a.), French will keep coming at you every 5 years. Option c.) means giving them provinces and solving this problem for a while. Once you build your country up a bit, you can regain your cores, but its gonna be very hard with latin medieval infantry in 1399.

d.) fight it our with French, even though youre at a disadvantage at 1399. its still possible to beat them. Its hard, takes some luck (gotta grind down stack after stack after stack) but its possible. IMO its not worth the trouble, so go for either one of the previous options.

If you play your cards right, youll be able to invest all your income into land tech. IF you hit land tech lvl 18 first, take Maurician infantry, make a few stacks and land in France, youll kick their butts so hard, and once you win the first war, it only gets easier and easier.
 

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Depends on how gamey you want to go. Ultimately, attrition and war exhaustion is the key. You want France to run out of Manpower, none of her vassals will pick a fight with 12k stacks while you start occupying France proper. There's various approaches to killing off French manpower.

Simple one: Put 1k men in Navarra/Brittany

This baits pretty much every soldier in France to stare at you, then you incite troop desertion (spy mission) in the province they watch from

Watch as their war exhaustion skyrockets.

When it caps, put another lure down somewhere else in France - in other words, split their armies up.

Start ganging up your actual armies on theirs, chase them all down (infiltrate administration spy mission on Paris helps this tremendously).

Once they're all dead, just about every French province will be trying to train new men. This is fine, you'll occupy half of France before they have an army again.
 

herrhals

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The trick is to get military access from all neighboring countries. If you march a 4-5k army south through Burgundy for southern France (Provence area), the French will send a big army down to meet you. Before they get to you, you send your stack into Savoy or Burgundy (anywhere close), and the French army will start walking north to your other armies. After they move away, move your troops back into France, and they will come back to pursue you 4-5k stack. During this time, you are carpet sieging northern France, picking off smaller armies as they come.

It helps BIG time if you can Ally Aragon, Burgundy, Castile. Also, try to get the conquer Ireland mission as this will let you take Ireland for forcelimit upgrades, and it most likely gets you into a war with Brittany, which is perfect size to vassalize and use as a staging ground for your troops invading France (including getting half their forcelimits). Make sure not to get Brittany involved in the war itself (don't ally them). Vassalizing Scotland is helpful too.
 

Chronicler

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I always beat France within the first few years of the game. (Maintaining a standing army of 20-25k troops)

Seems you are approaching it in a wrong way if you build 60k trops (you don't have forcelimit for that....), and your troops will be severely hit by attrition.

This is how you should play the game:

*Assuming you start with conquest of Ireland mission*

Day 1, you declare on Ulster, Leinster, Munster and whatever the last irish nation is called, you also declare on France (Don't call on Portugal yet). (You also build so you have a total of 25 000 troops, 20 000 infantry and 5000 cavalry)

(Also mint so you can buy defender of the faith)

You send your troops over to Ireland and easily defeat the irish minors and annex them. You should also build 3 cogs to get cogs up to 15 (how did you get naval forcelimit for those other cogs?)

Anyway, while doing all this have your fleet protect your coast, also keep Munster from sending troops to Aquitaine, keep like 4 carracks in their waters.

Now you get a new mission, I usually get vassalize Scotland or Occupy Paris. (If you get any other cancel)

It doesn't matter which one you get first, but Scotland is usually allied with Burgundy here.

If you get Scotland mission first, you declare war on Scotland and only concentrate on grabbing the 3 bottom provs, keep half your army in the western bottom prov, 1 regiment in the eastern and other half in the province above (keep 1 regiment loose in the western bottom as well if you would need to defend the top).

Once 2-3 of these provinces are occupied you can force vassalize Scotland (mission completed)

Try to get peace with whomever Scotland was allied with, and concentrate on the remaining threat (France), if Scotland was brought into the war by France, you might want to force vassalize them then instead, would make things easier

Now you should try getting Occupy Paris, get military access from Burgundy, and get 17k troops in Calais, and have 8k troops in the province next to it. When you are ready to attack, bring 15k troops into Paris, and keep 10k in reserve if it should lead to battle.

If you can here you should destroy the main french army, also call on Scotland and Portugal to join in your war.

Your main goal of this war (after occupy paris is finished) is not to take provinces, but to make France release nations. For example, in the first peace, make them release Normandy, Champagne and perhaps cancel vassal of Alenqon, Orleannais etc. If France haven't brought in all the vassals you got cores on into the war, you can also attack these and annex them.

Anyway, once these nations are released (weaklings compared to you), you can attack them and annex them.

Your goal should be to retake all your cores here, once France is divided, it's no longer a serious threat to you.

While doing all this you should add the HRE nations to your SOI, (to be able to offer vassalization in the future...very effective)

Once your main missions are finished, you will get generic missions, most of these is stuff like vassalizing Brittany and many nations much smaller than you, very effective CBs that give infamy reduction even.

You could also use your holy war CB from defender of the faith and go on a crusade.

EDIT: Examples of generic missions I got in my last game was force vassalization of Brittany (earlier game I got core missions on some of their provs), I got a conquer Zeeland missions (after shutting down force-vassalize Holland lol)
I got force-vassalize missions on Brabant, Navarre, most western minors (didn't play this game very far)

EDIT2: Also when you are done enact Staple Port decision in Calais and build a CoT there. Likey likey (like instant 1000-ducat CoT if you own most your cores in France)
 
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unmerged(242044)

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I just entered into involuntary war with France and in an attempt to route their armies in Gasgone, I lost my army of 24k men-at-arms in the blink of an eye. The year is 1433. Also, a single stack of theirs had 82k--is this even possible? How does one defend against such odds!
 

Chronicler

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I just entered into involuntary war with France and in an attempt to route their armies in Gasgone, I lost my army of 24k men-at-arms in the blink of an eye. The year is 1433. Also, a single stack of theirs had 82k--is this even possible? How does one defend against such odds!

You sure it was all french troops?
 

alexti

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I think the simplest way to defeat France is DoW them on day one. I immediately ship my starting troops in northern France (and getting MA from Burgundy), destroy whatever stack they have there and then split up into groups of 2-3K and sit on provinces French are building the re-enforcements so I can destroy them right away. As soon as their vassals join the war I destroy their army. Meanwhile I build another 10-12K and ship them to France too. Southern provinces will probably fall, but after losing the north French will concede few provinces. During this period I ignore Scotland and Castille. After French conceded, I would destroy Scotland forces, retake whatever they've managed to get during the French war and vassalize them (usually vassalization mission is one of the first two). After that I can beat up Castille. The key is that England starts with naval superiority, so all your enemies can't really join the forces and you can just fight them one by one.
 

cotwell

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How do you get MA from these guys when they hate your guts? (Brittany allied with Munster, Burgundy with Scotland) Isn't it gonna take too long to raise my relations, if I'm at war with France?

p.s. how did I get to be a sergeant? I don't know diddly here... (I know, 51 posts, all noob questions.)
 
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Chronicler

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How do you get MA from these guys when they hate your guts? (Brittany allied with Munster, Burgundy with Scotland) Isn't it gonna take too long to raise my relations, if I'm at war with France?

p.s. how did I get to be a sergeant? I don't know diddly here... (I know, 51 posts, all noob questions.)

Well, they probably only hate you if you had a war with them. I didn't have one with Burgundy so I easily got MA with them.

And if Brittany joined Munster in a war you probably defeated them to slow, during conquest of Ireland you should send all your troops there and just crush them with your infantry during sieges.
 

cotwell

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Yeah... sorry. I get why you declare on all the Irish states right away - before they can ally with anyone. So that is done, but now Scotland has honored their alliance with France, and I got the occupy Paris mission. I got military access from Burgundy, no problem, as you said. But now my troops are tied down in the North. Should I cancel the mission? What would you guys do now?
 

unmerged(326977)

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Yeah... sorry. I get why you declare on all the Irish states right away - before they can ally with anyone. So that is done, but now Scotland has honored their alliance with France, and I got the occupy Paris mission. I got military access from Burgundy, no problem, as you said. But now my troops are tied down in the North. Should I cancel the mission? What would you guys do now?

It's not like France can actually get to you since you have a bigger navy, you'd probably have enough time to force a white peace on Scotland (get them later when you have the mission) and then continue with your initial plan.
 

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Yeah... sorry. I get why you declare on all the Irish states right away - before they can ally with anyone. So that is done, but now Scotland has honored their alliance with France, and I got the occupy Paris mission. I got military access from Burgundy, no problem, as you said. But now my troops are tied down in the North. Should I cancel the mission? What would you guys do now?

I would not do what tigerkid suggests and get Scotland later. Just force vassalize them right away, it's just 4 infamy points, and you have secured your island. And then you can concentrate on France. (being defender of the faith helps with your morale)

I guess all depends on what your game goal is. What I love doing with England is block off Gibraltar with my fleet and go on a holy war spree (they can't reach your islands)
 
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cotwell

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It's not like France can actually get to you since you have a bigger navy, you'd probably have enough time to force a white peace on Scotland (get them later when you have the mission) and then continue with your initial plan.

True. btw: can I retreat my army out of a battle? Or do you just have to wait until their morale tanks?
 

Chronicler

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True. btw: can I retreat my army out of a battle? Or do you just have to wait until their morale tanks?

You can retreat yes, but there is some requirements that needs to be met first, I never bothered to learn these.

EDIT: If you want help I can probably get on msn/irc.
 

Pistachio101

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I would not do what tigerkid suggests and get Scotland later. Just force vassalize them right away, it's just 4 infamy points, and you have secured your island.

I'm afraid that this isnt from experience but I heard that you can only vassilize Scotland in one go if you have used the subjugate CB in order to make vassalage cost less warscore. Not 1005 sure on this but it might be something to watch out for.